Amazing Spider-Man writer Dan Slott recently told a poster at the Comic Book Resources Spider-Man forum to go F-themselves. A poster by the name of  lejayjay had a snarky comment about Slott saying

It is jus a paycheck for Slott anyway. He’s not a real fan.

Slott then replied with this comment.

As a guy who turned down a side job this year for a paycheck that would’ve been over a third of his yearly income– BECAUSE it would’ve meant cutting back on his not-so-lucrative comic book writing career– and get in the way of working on his Spider-Man dream job…

…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…

…this is the first time I think I’ve ever said this to somebody over a comic book message board:

Go fuck yourself.


Go. Fuck. Yourself.

Now I post this not to bring up the Slott/ Crawlspace disagreement again, but it opens a good point of discussion.
Should the pro’s be held to a different standard when it comes to online behavior?
Should they bite their tongues?
Are they risking future sales to an already small audience, when they tell a potential or current customer to go f-themselves?
I’d like your thoughts in the comment section or on this thread on our message board. Remember no personal attacks, keep it civil. Refresh yourselves on the rules before you post.
CBR has since deleted the post however Google was able to take a cache of it before it was deleted. Here’s the link.


669 Responses to “Slott Tells Fan To F-Themselves”

  1. #1 Spideydude says:

    I’ll chime in. The overall problem with the internet is there is a level of deception that occurs in the posters. With most message boards, anyone can be anyone. But with Dan Slott, his consistent dealings with anyone who happens to disagree with him have been escalating in tone over the last three years. But for anyone that honestly believes that Slott didn’t have a point doesn’t understand that Slott is a fan at heart. Should he have reacted differently? You better effing believe it. There’s a way to act, and a way to not act. He’s a professional writer. Not some dude. He needs to have the Tom DeFalco way of doing things book loaned to him.

    The way to handle it was the totally opposite way.

    But I understand the reasoning for why he would react this way. But he needs to get off the damn computer.

    And get back to work!


  2. #2 5p1d3y says:

    If I someday achieved the dream of writing the Spider-man book, and somebody told me that because of that dedication, I wasn’t a “real fan”, I’d tell them off too. I’m with Mr. Slott here, all the way. But man, it’s gotta suck for the other guy to know he’s an enemy of a writer on his favourite series.

  3. #3 Spideydude says:

    I don’t disagree with him telling him off…. I disagree with the tone he used.

    Act like a pro. You’re getting paid for it.

  4. #4 WebbedSentry says:

    I think Slott has a right to say what he did, but i dont think he should of said it. Just on the basis of proffesionilsm alone, what he said was and is out fo order

  5. #5 George Berryman says:

    Did Disney CEO Bob Iger approve the new “Go F-ck Yourself” PR campaign?

  6. #6 J.D. Dunn says:

    “Lejayjay’s” quoted post had a bit more context at the end. His/her point was that no real Spiderfan would ever work for Marvel after OMD. It wasn’t an attack on Slott personally so much as an attack on Marvel. Sure, it’s naive, but it’s one of the nicer epithets you’ll see on the internet.

    Slott is probably uberstressed at this point and the worst is coming out in him.

  7. #7 Spideydude says:

    Then he needs to get off the damn computer!

  8. #8 J.D. Dunn says:

    “Then he needs to get off the damn computer!”

    Farmville’s not going to tend to itself.

  9. #9 Manhunter#1 says:

    Love Slott for doing this, kick some a**!!!!. The internet has given bitter a**holes a forum to spew their garbage. Most comic fans just want to escape and have fun when they read comics. And most people are fine. But it’s the self-intitled few or minority that always seem to have to bi**ch and moan about there particular issues over and over and over and over again. Some even make a game of it and think it’s cute and clever because the internet fuels their little egos to the point they become self-righteous. They will always be right because they will never put their money where their mouth is and write these things themselves (Huge respect for Kevin for doing exactly that). I would love to see this become more frequent with creators and feed these insects their own excrement and see how they like the taste of it. But of course it won’t happen for many reasons, the main one being it’s unproductive. You can’t create for a sustained period of time when your mind is inflamed. So I will echo Spideydudes sentiments and recommend to Slott that he just stay off the computer and do what all writers should do. Try and get better at your craft everyday. There will lie your salvation. Peace.

  10. #10 Spideydude says:

    What boggles my mind:


    (Sorry to see you deleted the one guy’s comment about me getting fired. Seems odd to rewrite history like that.) – Steve Wacker

    While CBR gets their clean up crew on loan from the CIA to rewrite history.

  11. #11 RyanParkerMan says:

    Hold up, the post Lejay sent was much longer and much more offensive than what you guys have up. He basically called Dan an asshole for writing ASM post shitcon. It was much worse. Now, i’ve gotten into some pretty big tiffs with Slott, and even bigger tiffs with Wacker, but Dan and Wacker don’t make these posts ever. Dan was just having a bad day and came across some poster who never took a second to listen to any of Dan’s interviews. If he did, he’d know that Dan is a fan and a guy who appreciates the history of ASM.

    Here comes the, “Marriage, history, you are crazy”…

    But the thing is, Dan’s writing the character in this status quo now. I’m sure he would have gladly wrote ASM when Pete was married. I could be wrong, but i don’t think i am.

    @George- I don’t think Iger gives a shit what Dan Slott says on a CBR message board to some douchbag. I could be wrong though.

  12. #12 Spideydude says:

    “Farmville’s not going to tend to itself.”

    That wins.

  13. #13 Donovan Grant says:

    Having a bad day doesn’t excuse crap. He’s an adult, he should be use to the humanistic feeling of anger and know how to deal with it like a man.

  14. #14 RyanParkerMan says:

    @ Donovan
    With all due rspect, you weren’t there. It wasn’t angst over OMD or anything that’s happened in Big Time, it was just a d-bag post. I can’t believe i’m sticking up for Slott on CS, no wonder you guys absolved yourselves of me! :-)

    It was nice to comment again though. I stop by the site everyday for the comic strip. Now I’ll respect the site mods and return to not posting. Goodnight.

  15. #15 J.D. Dunn says:

    “He’s an adult, he should be use to the humanistic feeling of anger and know how to deal with it like a man.”

    Getting drunk in the garage and forcing his kid into competitive sports?

  16. #16 coco chanel's wig says:

    Dan is well within his right and I will drink to him in a snowstorm with my infrared goggles on. The man is a fan of the character, I believe that, so good on ’em. He was just relieving some tension and keeping the cosmic trigger happy.

    lejayjay is a skidmark. That is the pure and simple truth.

  17. #17 hermann22 says:

    Honestly being a musician myself and if/when the day comes that a album I made was being trashed on a stupid message board I would avoid it like hell cause its not going to be productive for anyone.

    Now that being said we all know Dan wants to be close to the fan base because after all he is one himself. When someone takes a super cheap shot like that of course your gonna get super pissed. Anytime someone challenges your main passion you will react. He should have held back and not have wrote anything but that fan was pushing his buttons. We all fall short of the glory am I right?

  18. #18 CloneSaga says:

    He is a fan allright more than a pro.. For 3 years he has behaved like this, nothing new about his attitude. He ticks on a nearly daily basis. Maybe the first time the F-word appeared, but his intent is always to mock people who doesn’t agree with him. He claims he only go after people when they post something that is factually incorrect. He is not able to see that the ‘facts’ can be interpreted in multiple ways, so he basically goes after everyone who disagrees. I don’t think this unprofessional behaviour is much more than what he delivers every week on CBR. Respect to Crawlspace for banning him for violating the rules. Not so much respect for CBR who let him continue his provoking rule-breaking cruzade against people of opposing opinions. (I’m sure Lejayjay’s post was inflammatory and rude. That is however irrelevant.)

  19. #19 persian-spider says:

    I belive in Mr. Slott
    he has given me the best Spider-man Mini ever and some very enjoyable spidey-related stories in She-Hulk! and I know he is a great writer. however, i think he takes orders from Mr. Wacker now.
    return to your true self Mr. Slott and tell us stories you supposed to tell us before you got a job as Amazing Spider-Man writer. be a “Fan” again

  20. #20 Andrew says:

    Honestly, I don’t even like BND. But these internet-warriors are complete d-bags. I’ve seen people, this site included, compare Joe Quesada to the devil or make fun of his weight. That’s just messed up. The person who attacked Slott is one of those anonymous idiots who sit back on their easy-chairs all day with their laptop in front of them, just spewing endless verbal diarrhea, and trying to bait professionals who may come to their forum. Well, occasionally they bite. I would have blew my top a long time ago if I was Slott. Again, I don’t like ‘Big Time’, but I would never doubt this guy’s passion for Spidey or his work-ethic.

  21. #21 Captain Cheesesteak says:

    Yeah, he should definitly be more proffesional, be holding back on his F-bombs while on a public forum…. But, this was at least a an outburst out of passion for the work, not a smug response out of ego.
    I don’t read Spidey books nowadays but that ain’t Slotts fault, I’ve liked things he’s written in past and I’m sure I’d like lots about his Spidey (but I’m still on a post-BND boycott)
    I hope he’s just not online getting frustrated all the time. He’d be a lot better off ignoring all our comments and critiques, I can only imagine how flustered I’d be if there were entire websites basically devoted to critiquing my caulking abilities.

  22. #22 Batgirl says:

    I find it shocking and somewhat appalling how many people here are voicing out their *approval* of Slott’s behaviour.

    For one, being told you are not “a real fan” is not exactly the worst insult out there. I mean, really, doesn’t being professional kind of rank higher than being a fan, anyway? Isn’t it essentially much *cooler* to be professional in something, rather than a fan? And not only is Slott answering an insult with an insult, he is upping the level of the insult to the boot, too. Unless the original poster made inappropriate comments about Slott’s family members, the one going for the big one here is Slott and he does it *twice*.

    Was it nice, or even right, of the original poster to be insulting? Of course not. But did this behaviour somehow justify Slott’s response? Absolutely NOT. Even if Slott wasn’t in the position of power due to being the professional one in the situation, being the one in control of what happens to something important to both parties (in this case Spider-man), he had no right to tell the other poster to go f* himself. One wrong is not made right by another wrong. Nor does one wrong make another wrong right.

    I mean, really, isn’t this one of those things most parents try to teach their kids from pretty early age on? Just because someone says a mean thing to you, it does not mean you should go ahead and say mean things back at them. Is it not only considered much more mature, but also simply correct human behaviour, to take the higher road and not be provoked?

    Also, while Slott’s response was inappropriate regardless of his position as a professional, his position is not irrelevant to the whole ordeal. He has chosen to place his work, and by certain extension himself, out for people to criticize. That is the basic nature of all creative work, even more so with creative work one makes their living out of. If one cannot handle criticism, be it justified criticism or not, then published creative work is not the field to be. It is not possible to commercially publish something and to expect that *no one* is going to dislike, or even possibly outright hate, your creation.

    Another thing where Slott being professional comes into the play is that the poster was potential *customer*. Under no circumstances is it acceptable behaviour from a professional to tell their customer to go F* himself. Even if the customer is being horribly rude and saying most inappropriate things, the professional party has no excuse to react that way.

  23. #23 Andrew says:


    Please join my new site


  24. #24 Themanofbat says:

    I can’t beleive this is even an issue…

    Dedicating an entire topic filled with internet tweens & basement babies is yet just a gross invitation to ask for another F-Bomb from Slott & Whacker… and it would be rightly justified.

    You keep giving these people who think their thoughts & opinions actually matter/count a forum and one day, it will explode on the faces of these creators… and simply telling them “to get off the computer” is NOT an answer, because I beleive we’ve already gone through the “get in the back of the bus” & Auswitch Sagaa throughout the last decade that we don’t need to start new ones… albiet in baby form…

    Let the man do his job, be respectful about his job, and all will be fine.

    If you disagree with his job, then be polite about it.

    ‘Nuff said.



  25. #25 Berserkfury819 says:

    Well now we know why there is such a long wait between 649 and 650. Slott is too busy telling people to eff themselves. Bet he doesn’t even get a warning.

  26. #26 Jason Marsh Larouche says:

    As someone who’s put his foot in his mouth before when emotion got the better of him, I think Slott’s reaction was better left under his breath than on the forum. This puts a lot of fans off; as a professional writer you have to carry a modicum of maturity and dignity. While we understand that he’s had serious health concerns, he could have responded to this in another, less-volatile way. Telling off one fan means telling off the majority. Dan, next time please think this out. Some people are assholes, I know, but you wind up the bad guy when you react like this.

  27. #27 Themanofbat says:

    Please excuse my bad spelling in my initial post…. my blood sugars were low…

    Decade should read Century…

  28. #28 CRM says:

    Should Slott have said that? Perhaps not with those particular words, no. Do I blame him? Not at all. He probably should have chosen his words better or just left it alone. But I do understand where he is coming from and I won’t hold this against him at all.

  29. #29 Mark says:

    Slott should not have done this. He is not speaking just for himself, as he is a professional and probably the most visible member of the team creating ASM. Take the high road.

    He should have done what most professionals do. Talk with a friend or colleague. That person, speaking for his/herself, would point out the hard work Slott has done, and posted the angry GFY in support of Slott.

  30. #30 Kevin Cushing says:

    Excuse me, “Themanofbat,” did you honestly just compare the statement that creators should stay off the internet to African Americans being forced to sit at the back of the bus and Jews being herded into concentration camps? Honestly? You’ve already acknowledged that the spelling and grammar of that post left something to be desired, so maybe I’m just misunderstanding you. PLEASE let me be misunderstanding you.

  31. #31 herbiepopnecker says:

    ALL posters should abide by a board’s rules.
    As simple as that.

    Meanwhile, I don’t think Slott should have
    used them there words.

  32. #32 Keenan says:

    Normally I would sympathize with this. (We’ve all been here. Putting our foots in our mouths and such)

    But here’s what stops me:

    “…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…”

    If he’s that sick why in the heck is he getting on the net to argue with people in the first place?
    Is he getting paid to appear on the CBR forums? O_O

    If you feel good enough to expose yourself to a place where you KNOW your going to get pissed off, than you must not really be feeling THAT bad at all.
    The time he uses to insult nameless internet poster number 59883 could be spent refining his Amazing Spidey comics.

  33. #33 Spideydude says:

    Again, the people to the people who seem to thin that I’m a bigot, er one person that thinks that they should get in the back of the perverbial bus, needs to understand, if you’re going to tell people to go eff themselves, then you’ve reached a point where you don’t need to be on the damn computer talking to people online. If he was sick, then you need to rest, not get your blood boiling over some insignigifacant flea that pushed that one button.

    Had he showed some restriant, then he’d gotten alot more respect in my book. Let the no-names tell him to go eff himself. The rest of CBR is good at that.

  34. #34 Themanofbat says:

    @ Kevin…

    Where does the fine line stop?

    Telling somebody that they should “get off the internet” because they don’t like to hear all the BS negativity that people can freely dole out (and apparantly, they aren’t allowed to have any type of rebuttal that isn’t deemed “professional”)…

    yes, it appears anal at first… but what comes after that… and after that?

    Everyone thinks they live in the “land of the free” where they can tell some guy to “whatever” (the posts have been deleted @CBR, so I have no idea what was said), and the response is to tell said guy that he “should get off the computer”????

    Why is it that paying/non-paying fans are allowed to rude & ignorant towards the people that create the books, yet it’s terrible if said creator dishes it right back.

    Telling him he should “get off the computer” is just the start… what civil rights for comic book creator will be at stake next?

    Obviously, it’s not “comparable” to the plight of African-Americans in the US, or the Jews in Germany NOW… but even looking at the history of those events, things began simple enough that made people think it was “ok”…

    I have no right to tell YOU what to do… what gives the people on this board the right to tell Dan Slott he should “get off the computer” if he doesn’t like what he reads?

    If people reacted in a more mature & polite manner, none of this would have even happend.

    But tough guys living in their mom’s basements have big mouths… and apparantly their rights are more protected (and condoned) than the creators of the comics we all love and read.

  35. #35 Tonyd117 says:

    Glenn Beck is that you?? Thank the lord there are people willing to stand up for a creator’s right to act unprofessionally. They’re the only people preventing us all from being shipped off to the reeducation centers. God Bless America!!

  36. #36 timtahoe says:

    I would be interested to see how some of the people posting on here would react to someone saying something similar to them. It’s easy to pretend we are all level headed professionals, but I’ve been around long enough to know that what people pretend to be online and what they are in reality isn’t always the same thing.
    Myself, I think Slott should have refrained, but I won’t sit here and say the poster didn’t have it coming to him.

  37. #37 Barrel Jumper says:

    Marvel does a nice job of policing their message boards on their site and preventing fans from discussing certain issues.

    Perhaps Marvel now needs to attach that same philosophy with their talent.

    In today’s day and age, no company should want an employee telling a potential customer to go “F” themselves. Because you’re not just alienating one fan when you do that. The actions are a disgrace.

    This is JUST ONE MORE REASON why I won’t buy anything with Dan Slott’s name attached to it.

    Barrel Jumper

  38. #38 Kevin Cushing says:


    If I were to say something defammatory about or (god forbid) directly to one of my customers on the internet, even on my private Facebook page, I would be fired from my job for that. It’s something that happens to people all the time these days. So the idea that Dan Slott is protected by the Constitution in his right as a comic book writer to go on a public message board and tell a customer to go fuck himself is simply one of the more ridiculous things I’ve ever heard. He is a professional, paid by Marvel, representing Marvel whether he likes it or not. He does not have the inalienable right to go on the internet and curse out Marvel’s customers, even when they’re being jackasses.

    And the fact that you would compare the thought of telling a professional that he should stay away from things that are going to cause him to act unprofessionally in public to racism and Nazism is so offensive I can’t even fit it in my head. But guess what? Since I have the UNpaying job of admining this board, it would still be out of line for me to tell you to go fuck yourself. Because that would be unprofessional.

  39. #39 Stephen Wacker says:

    Dan is not an employee and isn’t held to the same standards I am.


  40. #40 Stephen Wacker says:

    Why is what Kevin said in post #38 okay? You can tell someone off as long you say you aren’t? Very un-not-yet-professional.

    As some one I know once said, “but I understand the reasoning for why he would react this way. But he needs to get off the damn computer.”


  41. #41 Kevin Cushing says:


    I didn’t say he was an employee, I said he was paid by Marvel. And if he’s held to standards so low that he can go on the internet and tell your customers to go fuck themselves while he’s writing one of your flagship books, then maybe the standards he’s held to need to be reexamined.

    Just because he’s a freelancer doesn’t mean he doesn’t represent Marvel when he goes online if he’s writing Amazing Spider-Man. You can’t personally email every customer or potential customer who’s offended by his comments to explain to them that he’s a freelancer so he’s held to lower standards and they should pay money for his work anyway.

  42. #42 timtahoe says:

    @Kevin Cushing

    I hate going to bat for Slott like this, because he was WRONG to do what he did. However, we can’t expect writers or artists to respond like they are selling Widgets at WidgetMart. Dan has professed his love for this character, in fact calling it his dream job, and some dope chose to insult him in a way that would be offensive to anyone doing what they have a deep passion for. Instead of looking at it like as someone in a business, I would instead look at it more like what would happen if someone said that to say, Stephen King, or those types. I suspect the person would get a similar response, although I will grant that a famous author could probably absorb more loss of sales than a comic book writer.

    Also, if we insist on looking at it as an employee/customer example, I would ask that you consider if this conversation took place in a bar, and someone came up to you and said you do what you love for a paycheck, not because you have a passion for what you do. Would we be as willing to turn the other cheek? Again, I don’t think so, despite what some posters on here would lead us to believe. Again, I hope we don’t ever find ourselves in similar positions, because I doubt we will be as calm and collected as we would like to think we are.

  43. #43 Kevin Cushing says:


    I WASN’T telling him to go fuck himself, I was trying to demonstrate that even though I’m NOT a professional, NOT an employee of this site, and NOT getting paid, it STILL wouldn’t be ok for me to say that. I apologize if I didn’t make my point clearly enough, and I apologize to Themanofbat if he thought I was telling him to fuck himself. I wasn’t. I was trying to make a point.

  44. #44 Kevin Cushing says:


    No, I certainly don’t expect comic writers and artists to act like Wal-Mart employees. But this is not one guy insulting another in a bar. If someone came up to Slott in a bar and said what he did and Slott told him to go fuck himself, that’d be one thing. Unprofessional, but ultimately understandable as long as he doesn’t usually conduct himself like that. IN A BAR. Not on the internet, on a public forum where he’s not only cursing out someone who probably pumps a lot of money into what Marvel puts out, but doing so in front of THE ENTIRE WORLD, where it can be google cached and kept forever, and drive away any number of OTHER customers and potential customers who see his bad behavior.

  45. #45 Stephen Wacker says:

    Kevin, the world doesn’t work that way you seem to want it to…which is actually good if you like open , honest conversation…but bad if you don’t like to be witness to Dan Slott kvetching.

    You seem very much FOR the idea of corporations controlling the thoughts and speech of freelancers which I think is a dangerous, slippery slope.

    All that said…can i judge this website by the fact that many users say goofy, wrong-headed, mean-spirited stuff that they make up? That answer seems to generally be no.


  46. #46 Gerard Delatour II says:

    Is it within Slott’s right to defend himself? Sure. However, getting belligerent with someone to the point of cussing them out reflects pretty poorly on him as a so-called “professional.”

    One thing to point out, though: people need to stop pretending that this is the first time someone on the ASM creative team has acted like this with the fans. Hell, I linked to some pretty hardcore trolling by Wacker and Slott in my last review, so this is practically the culmination of behavior that they’ve been engaging in for WEEKS now, at the very least. (I wouldn’t even put it past them to have done so INTENTIONALLY … but that’s a conspiracy for another day, I guess.)

  47. #47 Fred says:

    Steven, we all know that the world does not work the way we want it to. That’s not the point. if any of us in our work place did what Dan did, freelance or not to a customer, we would be fired. it has nothing to do with free thinking, it has to do with being professional, which Dan has proven with his behavior to be not.

    As for Marvel, controlling the thoughts and speech and open honest conversation, that’s another subject all together.

  48. #48 Kevin Cushing says:


    Don’t try to paint me as the thought police. It’s not like I’m saying creators shouldn’t be able to go on the internet and generally speak their minds in a reasonable manner. But is it really so ridiculous to think that there should be a line, and telling a customer or potential customer to go fuck himself should be over that line? Is that really such a fascist idea?

    As for judging this site, you can and HAVE judged it however you want to. If you want to harp on a few that go over the top and let it ruin your experience, that’s your business. And it’s ok, since there’s no one in this equation getting paid. You deciding you no longer want to come to this website because of your negative opinion of it doesn’t effect anyone’s bottom line one bit. Customers deciding not to buy Marvel comics because one of their most featured writers tells fans to go fuck themselves DOES put less money in Marvel’s pocket.

  49. #49 Stephen Wacker says:

    I’m not sure why I–or anyone else– need to be limited by the rules and standards that other people are given at their jobs.

    My suspicion is that people aren’t really offended. They just like the conversation and criticism to be a one-way street.

    Most people anyway.


  50. #50 Stephen Wacker says:

    I’ll say this, Kevin, you are much nicer in e-mail when you want something and your friends aren’t looking.

    Anyway what is this “harping” you are harping about? I think you’re changing the subject.


  51. #51 Gerard Delatour II says:

    @Stephen Wacker: If you guys choose to post at message boards, you should be held accountable for your words in the same way that other users are. Frankly, if anyone on this message board told another poster to “go fuck yourself” he or she would probably be banned. Permanently.

    It’s obvious that CBR treats you guys differently, and that’s just crap.

  52. #52 Kevin Cushing says:


    I’ll say this as plainly as possible. You and others in your profession should have some limits of what you can reasonably say online because you’re trying to sell a product, and the people you’re trying to sell it to either A) are the very people you’re talking to, or B) have the ability to see what you’ve said. And it reflects on Marvel. And it can impact the bottom line of a lot of people, including but not limited to you.

    To think you should be able to say whatever the hell you want and there won’t be consequences is either incredibly naive or incredibly selfish.

  53. #53 Fred says:

    “I’ll say this, Kevin, you are much nicer in e-mail when you want something and your friends aren’t looking.”

    Kevin is actually being nice here Steve and has explain his position quite well.

  54. #54 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Steve (re: comment #50)

    There was a time I did find you (and also Mr. Quesada) very friendly, helpful, and gracious in emails, and I’m thankful for that to this day. I even remarked on that in public, defending both of you regularly at the time. Unfortunately all I see from you these days is snark and bitterness directed at your fans, and venom directed at this website, which I and other put a lot of hard work into. So either things have simply changed, or you, too, are much more pleasant via email.

  55. #55 timtahoe says:


    If a “customer” was to tell me that I was just collecting a paycheck, and didn’t care about what I do, and I responded the way Dan did, I seriously doubt that I would be fired. Maybe a trip to HR, but fired after responding to that kind of remark? Doubtful. It’s not the way to go, but it’s not the nuclear bomb that people are making it out to be either.

    And let’s clear up one more thing, Dan Slott said this to one poster. I know the heading of this thread says he told a fan to f “themselves”, and Kevin has repeated that in his last post that he said it to “fans”, it was to one individual, not fans in general who don’t like his writing. There IS a difference, and I hope that it was an oversight, and not a well placed “slip”.

  56. #56 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    While I question whether this needed to be on the front page or not, I’ll say this: I REALLY don’t care what Slott does in his free time. And, as I understand it, he was having a bad day and people were getting on his nerves. I probably would’ve reacted similarly to how he did. Could’ve been dealt with some other day? Absolutely. Was it unprofessional? You bet. But sometimes there is really only one way to deal with obnoxious people, even if you have to pay for the consequences later on. If he thinks the satisfaction of what he did outweight the consequences of his actions, then I’ll gladly look the other way and read some comic books.

  57. #57 timtahoe says:

    by Kevin’s “last post” I meant post #48. Sorry.

  58. #58 Stephen Wacker says:

    Kevin, I believe that you believe this and I hope I never have to work for you…which is something you’ll hear a lot given your point of view.

    I do have limits on what I say (though I’ve never been told the limitsdirectly. I’m just smart and have common sense about that kind of thing).

    Dan doesn’t live by the same rules because the freelancer/company relationship is very different. Not theoretically different… but specifically and legally different. You not wanting to believe in that doesn’t make it untrue or unimportant.

    On another note…i was just curious that given how quickly and selectively the rules are applied here…with posts being erased for being deemed offensive…why is the original post up top even allowed? (misleading headline and all)


  59. #59 Stephen Wacker says:

    Kevin, you do what many of the more defensive people here seem to do and have created some crusade that I’m on against this website. The world is more indifferent to you than you think.

    Please don’t hold me to the same grudges and wars you are waging. I find this place VERY entertaining and have said so.


  60. #60 Gerard Delatour II says:

    @Stephen Wacker: First of all, the rules aren’t selectively applied here. I myself am Exhibit A — even though I write the site’s official reviews of The Amazing Spider-Man, I have two warnings on the message boards for very minor (and debatable) infractions of the rules. They don’t pick favorites.

    Secondly, the mods and admins don’t delete posts that break the rules, as a means of showing people what is and is not offensive. Though I’m not a mod or admin, I edited the post in my last review because it was directly insulting to you — and Brad contacted me and told me NOT to do that in the future, because it was against the site’s policy. So, the so-called “revisionist history” you keep claiming in your posts is, in fact, a complete fabrication of your own based on a single incident having nothing to do with the administrative staff. NOW who’s the one making things up? 😉

  61. #61 Doc Folsome says:

    I think Slott made a mistake in doing this…but all that tells me is that he’s a human being…I’m not gonna judge him as a writer based off of this anymore than I’m gonna judge Derek Anderson as QB after he blew up on the press…and if anyone thinks they can judge Slott as a person based off of a couple of things he posts at a message board they’re wrong as well…

    BD, I have a LOT of respect for this site, but honestly, this isn’t news (despite the fact that its hit 60+ posts)…and unless we’re going to discuss the ‘good’ things writers do, it may not be fair to highlight their screw-ups…

  62. #62 Gerard Delatour II says:

    For the record, the post is back at CBR. And, even though BOTH of the Spider-Board mods have commented in the thread, they haven’t even addressed the post or given any visible warnings.

  63. #63 drewr15 says:

    Wow…this got interesting fast.

    Yeah look I can understand Slott’s anger and annoyance and I’m sure in his mind he was thinking the hell with this, this guy is not buying my book anyway so why can’t I tell him off. Catch most of us on the wrong day (myself included) and it is easy to blow a gasket. Still though, I think it would have been better for him to show restraint. It is not a matter of limiting free speech as some are ridiculously trying to paint it, it is a matter of using your head and common sense. What do you gain in the end by telling a potential paying customer off other than some self gratification at the moment? The short term feeling you get there is not going to be beneficial in the long term when you are trying to convince that customer to come back with the next change in direction (whatever or whenever it may be). That’s all Kevin and others are trying to say. Any of us who have worked in a job dealing with the public in any form can tell you a whole list of stories where we have wanted to tell a customer off just like Slott did but we had to use restraint for the sake of the business, our job security, or whatever reason.

    To use “themanofbat”‘s own words – If people reacted in a more mature & polite manner, none of this would have even happend. Very true but why shouldn’t that start with Slott? It has to start somewhere and the where should have been Slott for the simple fact that it could affect him financially and long term. Yes it would be nice if everyone on the internet acted more polite to each other but alas that is not reality but as Batgirl said, two wrongs don’t make a right and the person who has the most to lose here was Slott.

    I don’t blame Slott for reacting that way or think he is a jerk or something for his reaction but he should have kept a cooler head. That’s all.

  64. #64 Berserkfury819 says:

    All that said…can i judge this website by the fact that many users say goofy, wrong-headed, mean-spirited stuff that they make up? That answer seems to generally be no.

    I assume you’re reffering to the posts you and Dan make on CBR?

    And how come you aren’t complaining that CBR removed a post, or is it ok for them but wrong for us?

  65. #65 jpd13 says:

    @Stephen Wacker

    Bottom line, do you agree with the way Slott handled the situation? As a person who is “smart and has common sense about that kind of thing” is this how you would have handled it? I’d like to think I have common sense about these kind of things too and my “common sense” would tell me his response wrong.

    To me, it comes off as unprofessional. Does he have the right to respond this way? absolutely. However, being in the position he’s in, my personal opinion is that he should have handled it more professionally. Also, say what you want about Slott not being a Marvel employee, being a freelancer or whatever (I don’t pretend to know the in’s and out’s of the comic business), but I can tell you as a reader for over 30 years this leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth about Marvel. That should be a concern to Marvel.

    ……just one fans opinion (who usually doesn’t get involved with these type of debates).

  66. #66 Kevin Cushing says:


    Anyone who would decline to work for someone who puts on them the restriction that they can’t tell their customers to go fuck themselves is going to have a very hard time getting employed. I doubt these people you speak of have much experience in the workforce.

    As for the company/freelancer relationship, I don’t claim to know the laws inside and out, but I would be very surprised if it would be considered unreasonable for a company to stop giving work to a freelancer who tells that company’s customers or potential customers to go fuck themselves. I’m pretty sure this stoppage of freelance work would be upheld in a court of law.

    On the subject of the previously deleted post in another comment thread you’ve been running up the flagpole of late, Gerard has already explained (here and before, actually) that it was he who deleted the comment, he is not a member of the staff, and he was told not to do that again. But I have to say, I take umbrage to your insinuation that the rules here are applied unfairly and/or hypocritically. We work very hard to maintain an open, welcoming, and fair atmosphere on this site where no one gets personally insulted or discriminated against. I devote many hours of most days to the task without getting paid for it and take the job very seriously.

    The headline, in my opinion, is not misleading. The poster Slott responded to on CBR was certainly being a jerk, but the fact that he was so passionate about his dislike for the current direction of Spider-Man seems to make it pretty clear that he is, in fact, a fan. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t care. Slott responded to that fan by telling him to “go fuck yourself.” So I don’t see how the headline “Slott Tells Fan to F- Themselves” is in any way misleading.

    And finally, the world doesn’t appear to be that indifferent to the Crawl Space from where I’m sitting. It seems like every other day someone’s sending me a link to some snarky comment or outright insult about the Crawl Space, usually coming from CBR, and many times coming from Slott himself. I was quite sure some of those comments came from you, but if I was wrong I apologize. Though you choose to be so sarcastic all the time these days it can be hard to tell, which I suspect is how you like it.

    If you’re truly “entertained” by this website, I’d question why you asked for your account to be deleted, or why you only come into these comments sections on occasions like this. Unless you mean “entertained” in a condescending way, in which case, that’s kind of what I was saying, isn’t it? But, if you truly do enjoy the website, I’d invite you to call into the podcast this Saturday at 12:30 Central for our yearly call in show and have a discussion with us about it. Brad’s Skype handle is “webheadspidey.” We’d welcome your input.

  67. #67 GregXB says:

    Having read all of this. I understand and agree with Steve Wacker that the freelancers shouldn’t be held to certain terms by the corporation. Wacker is correct about this. Dan Slott has the right to speak his mind.

    That being said, I still feel Slott was in the wrong. Just because he can do something doesn’t mean he should do something. Yes, people on the internet can be douches, and they drive me nuts sometimes too. But Slott should have been the bigger person, and been more polite in his response, or better than that, not responded at all.

    I am lucky enough to have a friend and mentor who works in comics and television, and he has a large fanbase following his work. Yes, the fans drive him nuts sometimes, and he can get a bit sarcastic when that happens. But he never gets nasty, and he’s never told anyone off like that. Hell, when I got nasty with someone several years back, he saw it, and e-mailed me this long lecture. about how I needed to take a deep breath before posting, be more diplomatic and even more forgiving. How if he he blew up every time a fan said something retarded, he would have NO FANS LEFT.

    He’s right, and I’ve always tried to keep that in mind. I don’t always succeed. But I try.

    What this guy said to Slott was dumb. Very dumb. But Slott shouldn’t have sunk to his level.

  68. #68 Claudio says:

    I believe doing it, he went down to the person´s level. I am not saying he had to accept it and say no word but like other said, he is a pro and he has to face any type of criticism liking him or not. As a matter of fact he earn to do that, I am quite sure he wouldn´t do it for free. I respect him, even not happy or either being a fan of his work but if he want just to hear good things about him, stay on Marvel´s forum or don´t go to any forum at all.

  69. #69 Newboyz says:

    Ok to everyone who said this was unprofessional slott was not in a work setting and how come people feel the need to hold celebrities, creators, new reporters to a higher standard in their daily live they are people with foibles and they aren’t always going to be picture perfect. In This instance I applaud slott it is one thing to criticize a mans work what the fan did was insult the man’s DREAM as a singer/song writer I am very subject to the criticism of my work and I am open to and accept it, but when someone tells me that I am not passioniate about my dream ( which in this case translates to Slott is not a fan) that is bullshit and I will defend myself and I may say much worse than what Dan said in fact I’m surprised that’s all he said. People this is not about professionalism Dan said this not in a work environment now if Slott used a letter page in the actual book then it becomes unprofessional but this was said in his down time while bei on forums this is not unprofessional maybe it’s just bad judgement but I defend Slott’s right to say what he said I find it was justified now if you don’t agree with me think of it like this when someone criticizes your work then you work harder but what do you do when someone criticizes your passion for you dream job you will defend yourself you will most likely tell that person off and if you don’t then they were right about you, you don’t have the passion

  70. #70 Gerard Delatour II says:

    @GregXB: **glug**

  71. #71 CRM says:

    Despite the fact that I don’t think Slot SHOULD have said that, I even more strongly believe that the “customer is always right” mindset where they can tell you off and say whatever they want without consequence is absolute bull crap. I actually am glad that someone from Marvel would kind of stand up for Slott instead of comdemning him, by doing this and by what Slott did himself, I think it shows (true or not) that they are not “all about the paycheck. If you really want to start a campaign against people who should be held accountable to the same rules as the regular working class then you should start with professional athletes, they literally get away with murder.

    Also, I would never stop reading something I love because the writer told off one jerk who frankly kind of deserved it. Hell, I doubt I would stop reading it if he had said it to me personally, though at the same time I would never say anything that would warrant that type of reaction to begin with.

  72. #72 Stephen Broome says:

    May i bring up an example pre to this.

    Danny Way when he was righting Ghost Rider (around 2007) told a fan at a con i dont care about any of you, i only do this for the paycheck. DING thats me dropping your book!

    Seriously, now i work in customer service and in most proffessions you tell this to a customer in most customer service environments, there’s two things that WILL and SHOULD happen:

    1- You get taken into a Meeting and giving a warning
    2- You’re fired

    If these two things dont happen, then im seriously starting to debate what a workplace the Marvel offices are and whether or not it shows Marvel, Its Editors (Steve W) and its standards.

  73. #73 timtahoe says:

    I also want you all to go F-yourselves for getting me so wrapped up in this I missed the picture of Emma Stone farther down the page. You should be ashamed of yourselves. :)

  74. #74 Tonyd117 says:

    @ Doc Folsome – Wait till you hear Dan’s reaction when he hears you compared him to Derek Anderson!! 😛

  75. #75 Barrel Jumper says:

    So if I’m reading this correctly, Steve Wacker seems to agree and condone Dan Slott telling fans to go “fuck” themselves.

    Ok. Employee or not…how about some level of human decency?

    No matter how much someone dislikes the Crawl Space…just imagine if the members were allowed to say, “Fuck You Slott!” or “Fuck You Wacker!” (purely hypothetical) They’d all be banned and this site wouldn’t exist. Why? Because some rules of proper conduct exist…and this thing called common sense prevails.

    Seems to me at the least Marvel should suggest to the talent, “Can we please not tell our fanbase to fuck off”.

    Barrel Jumper

  76. #76 Stephen Wacker says:

    If you completely make up my POV to match what you angrily need it to be to maintain the illusion of constant conflict and scheming… then, yes, #75 has it exactly right.

  77. #77 Stephen Wacker says:

    Kevin, your position of it being my fault whether or not you know something is correct because you’re going to believe what you believe no matter what is certainly interesting.

    Sad that you’d choose that as a creative-minded person, but interesting.

    Take caren guys. I have to go help chart the next phase of worst Marvel comics ever!! More like House of NO Ideas!!! Am I right?!?!?

  78. #78 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Steve (re: #76)
    Well, Steve, what do you expect people to think when you come in here defending to the death Dan’s right to say what he said? You made no mention of disagreeing with it, and you defended him for doing it. It’s not exactly a stretch to foresee people contruing from this that you condone it.

  79. #79 drewr15 says:

    @ Newboyz – Sorry but I think you are dead wrong. Just because you don’t react poorly to something does not mean you don’t have passion. Perfect example is hockey, if you aren’t playing with passion in the playoffs, if you don’t want it as much or more than your opponent, then you aren’t going to win. But if you run around undisciplined taking stupid penalties, if everytime somebody checks you someway that you don’t like it and you keep retaliating with cheap shots and always putting your team shorthanded, you aren’t going to win either. There is a way to play with passion and restraint and I’d almost argue showing restraint at key moments can even show that you have more passion because sometimes it takes that passion and willingness to do anything win to be able to turn the other cheek when you don’t want to. Really, anyone who has read an interview with Slott knows he has passion for Spiderman. I highly doubt most people would have doubted his passion for the character because he did not respond to some one’s post on a forum.

  80. #80 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Steve (re: #77)
    I honestly have no idea what your first few lines there are trying to say, or even what they’re in reference to. I’m really not being sarcastic or anything, I simply don’t know what that means.

  81. #81 Stephen Wacker says:

    Kevin, that’s about as pro-rumor mongering and a position as I’ve ever heard….so congrats!


  82. #82 Stephen Wacker says:


    Kevin, that’s about as pro-rumor mongering a position as I’ve ever heard….so congrats!


  83. #83 Newboyz says:

    @ mr broome read my post And if u don’t want too this wasn’t said in a work environment it was said in an Internet forum MARVEL nor any other employer has the right to control what an employee does off hours in his home. If Slott said this in the letter page of the book then your point has true validity but he didn’t he said this in an open forum where people tell people to eff of all the time and worse. Slott didnt say this in a work setting therefore he shouldn’t be reprimanded by marvel for his actions your job can’t take action for your behavior if you arent working.

  84. #84 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Steve (re: #81-82)
    It’s not rumor mongering, it’s deductive reasoning.

    1. Did Steve Wacker specifically come onto a website to defend Dan Slott after Mr. Slott told someone to go fuck himself? Yes.
    2. Did Steve Wacker qualify his defense by saying something to the effect of “He shouldn’t have said it, but…?” No.

    Based on this evidence, if someone asked me what Steve Wacker’s opinion was of what Dan Slott said, I’d have to tell them he appeared to be cool with it.

  85. #85 Stephen Wacker says:

    I guess I’ll have to live with your rash deductions, though I suspect they say more about you than you realize.

    I’m sure your nice to babies though…even though I have no evidence!


  86. #86 Matisleonhart says:

    You know, in reading all 61 comments, I think we are missing the point here. The point is not that Dan doesn’t have the right to say what he want or to defend himself in which he has the right. The problem here and let me put it in big capitalized letter so everyone can understand is that the way he defended himself was UNPROFESSIONAL! I think this story bring to light a problem in our country that just becuase we have freedom of speech with think we have freedom from consiqunishes of saying something offensive or unprofessional. Let me put it this way to Mr. Wacker and the Gentelmen who was comparing this to civil rights earlier, I have the right to go into a grocery store, go to the nearest kid and tell him to go F himself to his face. Then three thing WILL probally happen. One, the parent espically if they are the father will Knock me the hell out and beat me within a inch of my life. Two, I would be thrown out and banned from the grcery store. And three, be arrest by the police for disorderly conduct. I still had every right to go tell the child to go F himself, but I didn’t have freedom fom the consiqunishes. Dan Slott has every right to tell the fan to go F himself, and I also have the right to see that and decide not to spend my money on a company who Flagship title has an author, wether that aurthor an employie or a freelancer, telling a fan to go F himself becuase I find it unprofessional. That the consiquench of Slott action. I’m a cusotmer first and a fan second. Let me put it another way since I’m the host of Hexcast, the only podcast dedicated to the Tarot Witch of the Black Rose comic book written by Jim Balent. on of the major reason that I continue to read Tarot is because on a book where it creator who is the writer/artist, has been attack many time for the contents of his book. Jim along with his Wife Holly has always acted Professionaly to both the fans who support his book and the people who attack it. And that is one of the reason that I in turn continue to buy both their books and the products along with defend their book so intently. Hopefully I made my point clear hear that no one think that Dan Slott doesn’t have the right to defend himself or tell a fan to go F himself. The point is that he should have done it more professionally and that becuase of this outburst, some fans including myself will be droping ASM. That the Consiquench.

  87. #87 Newboyz says:

    @ drew I get what you are saying but I still don’t agree your analogy doesn’t really ring true to me I watch football and I watch how players react when their passion for the game is criticized it’s usually along slotts opinion. And as a creative mind I know when my passion is questioned I snap back but if my WORK is criticized then I can deal with and understand, And even learn from it but criticizing ones work vs their character that’s two different matters and as of now we are talking bout the fan insulting his character/pAssion Slott can not gain anything from mindless criticism such as that it was derogatory and highly uncalled for and Slott defended himself like I believe he should have. I totally get it if aren’t of my opinion though but if the roles was reversed do you absolutely know if you wouldn’t have the same reaction. Also let’s be honest hasnt everyone on this earth said far worse for far less I mean I know when I’m driving and I get cut off I say way worse and this was for nothing. I mean the real question is should Dan have said it maybe not but he did and to be honest I understand where he’s coming from is all that I’m saying

  88. #88 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Steve (re: #85)

    I’m curious, if it’s so wrongheaded of someone to assume that you support what Dan said, why have you still not come right out and said that you DON’T? If you come in and defend someone and time and time again refuse to say anything but positive things in favor of what that person did, how crazy is it really for someone to assume you support what you’re defending?

  89. #89 Fred says:

    “I guess I’ll have to live with your rash deductions, though I suspect they say more about you than you realize.”

    Honestly Steve, your posts here say a lot about you and Dan. Kevin has shown you the up most respect in his replies, while you in my opinion have not.

    And people wonder why Dan acts the way he does with the fans.

  90. #90 Stephen Wacker says:

    Because I’m indifferent whether or not you or a few of your friends know what I think. It has little bearing on my life or on reality. It’s the parts where some of you clutch your pearls and pretend to be offended– along with the way many of you dictate how people who don’t work for you or with you should behave — that interests me.

    Basically though, I can easily live with the jaundiced, made-up view you have of me because I am at a more peaceful place than you are. There’s still time, though, you’ll hopefully get there.


  91. #91 Stephen Wacker says:

    I love this Fred guy!

    Do you have any idea how many years it’s taken me to train and control this Dan character?!?!?!

    YEARS!!! Mu hu hu huhahahah!!!!

  92. #92 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    Come to think of it, the title is not misleading, but it is grammatically incorrect:

    “Slott Tells Fan to f-himself” would be more appropriate, since, from what I understand, it was directed to the one dude.

  93. #93 Fred says:

    “Because I’m indifferent whether or not you or a few of your friends know what I think.”

    You’re not telling us anything we don’t know Steve.

    @Kevin, don’t waste your time, you have shown more class, understanding and respect about the subject in my opinion that Steve did. You’re not going to get an coherent response from Steve.

    You’re a good man Kevin.

  94. #94 Newboyz says:

    @spideydude #3 I believe Slott is being paid to write spiderman not what he says in a forum heck if u can get paid for that I’ll take that job lol

  95. #95 Bertone says:

    Just to note…

    Brad mentioned this the first time the picture was taken but I’m repeating it here before somebody gets the wrong idea.

    Slott is goofing in the picture. It’s a joke and not meant to be anything negative against the CS. I took the picture and we discussed funny ideas and he suggested holding it upside down.

  96. #96 Mark says:

    @Matisleonhart: Exactly. Most people (including myself) understand why Slott did what he did. But he has a duty to be professional. If not for Marvel, then for himself!

    There is a saying: “Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level, and then beat you with experience.”
    Slott has just shown questionable judgment by arguing with a fool, in public.

  97. #97 Stephen Wacker says:

    Was Bill Hicks a “professional”?

  98. #98 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    @Kevin – Just forget it and let it die. To pull a Mark, I’ll quote a quote:

    “I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it!”

  99. #99 stillanerd says:

    This reminds me, years ago, when I read the letters column in one of Todd McFarlane’s Spider-Man issues. The letter writer went on a tirade about how much he thought McFarlane was one the worst artists he had ever seen, that he had no grasp of basic human anatomy, that his characters looked distorted and deformed, that he probably only got the job because he knew someone who could get him into the front door at Marvel rather than having any actual talent, and that this letter writer personally knew a half-a-dozen would-be artists who much more qualified and better than McFarlane on his best day, or words to that effect. McFarlane’s response was: “Really? Who are these artists? If they are really are as good as you claim, maybe you can have them mail in their work so I can help get them a job!”

    The thing is, I do agree that what that poster said was rather rude and crass (which, in that same thread which was partially deleted, he later apologized for his behavior, saying he was trying to be sarcastic) and it certainly is ridiculous to think that Dan Slott, given the genuine enthusiasm that’s been on full display whenever he talks about Spider-Man, and the fact that it’s clear he’s been wanting to do this gig for a long time, is most definitely a fan. I’ve had heated debates with him several times and that was something I never doubted about him for a second.

    However, it’s very clear that he let his emotions get the best of him, lost his cool, and thus did respond in an unprofessional manner. As “Batgirl” posted earlier, two wrongs don’t make a right. I know I have gotten pretty angry with people on forums in the past, as it is very easy to let one’s emotions flare up. Like it or not, a professional writer, freelance or otherwise, is held to a different standard than their audience is. For that reason alone, we as readers, in most cases, genuinely want those writers–those professionals–as they defend their work and the work of others, to show those who have misguided opinions the errors of their ways, to take the high road, to have some genuine class, so that even though we may still disagree, we can, at the end of the day, still hold them in the deepest respect. We don’t expect them to get down in the gutter with us.

  100. #100 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Steve (re: #90)
    For someone who’s indifferent to whether or not I know what you think, you sure have spent 3 hours online trying to tell me. That’s what I find interesting. Also that you mock me making assumptions about you in the same sentence as you tell me, a person you don’t know, that I’m not in as peaceful a place as you are. Very interesting.

    @Fred (re: #93)
    Thank you for the kind words, sir. I would say the same of you.

    @Steve (re: #97)
    Bill Hicks was a professional insult comedian. That’s what he was paid to do. Dan Slott is paid to write comic books that will sell well. And him telling customers to fuck off is detrimental to the goal of his comic books selling well.

  101. #101 CRM says:


    Is Dan Slott saying this the only reason you are dropping the book? If he were to appologize would you change your mind?

  102. #102 Stephen Wacker says:

    Kevin, you making those rules up about how Dan needs to act, doesn’t make it applicable or relevant.

    What if I think your behavior here is unacceptable for a comics professional? Might I have a bit more context than you in that regard given the work i actually do professionally?


  103. #103 Stephen Wacker says:

    Also, I’m choosing to forgive you for calling Bill Hicks an “insult comedian”. That’s just downright sad.


  104. #104 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Steve (re: #102)
    I’m not making up rules, I’m stating a fact. Telling customers or potential customers to go fuck themselves hurts your sales. That’s not an abstract concept, nor is it one I just made up. As for what you think of my behavior here – I’m NOT a comics professional unless you have a job offer for me I don’t yet know about. So I don’t see the relation. I might write a Spider-Man series, but it’s one that’s free and you legally can’t read anyway. So you’re comparing apples to, well – FREE apples. That you personally are allergic to.

    Re: #103: You are right, that was a bad labeling on my part. It’s not like he’s Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. My mistake. Hopefully you still got the point, though.

  105. #105 erock says:

    Even if Dan Slott didn’t tell that guy to fuck off, Wikileaks would have released everyone’s private emails anyway and we would have still found out about it.

  106. #106 Berserkfury819 says:

    Steve, for someone who said he was leaving Crawlspace for good, you certainly come back to insult people rather frequently.

  107. #107 Stephen Wacker says:

    Kevin, again you are making up rules for others to live by. Fine for your message board, but that power only goes so far.

    And Dan doesn’t do the things you seem to think he does. He’s pretty great to fans… even the embittered. never-going-to-listen-anyway ones. I think you may be listening to too many people on your and other boards. Dan’s much sweeter than anyone here for example (aside from Brad’s kid).


  108. #108 MadGoblin says:

    I really don’t have anything to say. I just didn’t want to be left out of a 100+ comment thread. Back to snowplowing the driveway…

  109. #109 Berserkfury819 says:

    He’s pretty great to fans… even the embittered. never-going-to-listen-anyway ones.

    Does that include the ones he’s telling to go eff themselves?

  110. #110 Fred says:

    “Kevin, again you are making up rules for others to live by.”

    No, its called how to be professional.

    “Fine for your message board, but that power only goes so far.”

    Don’t try that, you have no leg to stand on when you resort to baseless accusations. It only shows that you would rather play victim than have a valid argument. Kevin has been gracious to you while you have not to him or this board.

  111. #111 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Steve (re: #107)
    What rule did I make up now, exactly? I reread my last comment and couldn’t find it.

  112. #112 Fred says:

    P.S. Sorry Kevin but it needed to be said. I hope i did not offend you or the board.

  113. #113 Jonny says:

    The fan was a doucebag but Dan should be above sinking to his level, end of.

    Honestly, this is the internet, I don’t see how people like Dan can take what faceless people he’s never met before so personally, but I suppose that can be chalked up to fatigue and general sickness

    In short, I agree with SD, get of the computer, and this is someone who occasional tweets back and forth with Dan, he’s never insulted me in anyway but he did mock a friend of mine for thinking it was cool that he (Dan) was tweeting me back, not exactly professional behaviour one would argue…..

  114. #114 Manhunter#1 says:

    We all show questionable judgement at times, whether we are being paid as professionals or not. We are human beings before being “professional”, whatever state of mind is required to attain that standard 24/7. Passion. He’s not a machine and I don’t want one writing my favorite title. When you work in this industry the fans will get absurd and obnoxious. As I already said, some make a career out of it. I imagine if you handle the INSULTS from some of these people well, it’s like having an army of little red ants crawling all over you. In this particular case, a nasty little cockroach was crawling up his leg and he squashed it. From the people I’ve spoken to today, most of them seem to be siding with Dan on this. There is only so much BS a person can take and everyone, I mean everyone (even all the die hard “professionals” out there who stand behind the GREAT WALL of professionalism), can understand this. The trolls who’s sole mission it is to critique and insult to no end, understand this. Thats why they bait, it’s their currency. So perhaps this particular poster got what he wanted, but I can tell you this, many people got satisfaction in Dan standing up for himself and telling this guy where to put it. So well done Dan, more people then not have got your back on this one. And I would be willing to bet that there will be people who pick up the book because of his response. Cheers.

  115. #115 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    Mr. Wacker, please go annoy some other site. In fact, here:

    They are talking about Mr. Slott there too. Why haven’t you engaged them in non-sequitur conversations yet?

  116. #116 Stephen Wacker says:

    As always, I will bow to Two-Bit Specialist’s wishes as I assume he speaks for all of you since you haven’t said otherwise.


  117. #117 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    @Mr. Wacker – A wish that has not been granted, I see.

  118. #118 Bertone says:

    Two-Bit, bring the hostility down..

  119. #119 Bertone says:

    You know what’s fun? Seeing how the comments correspond to issues of Amazing. This comment is where he fought the Hulk! Who wants to kill Gwen?

  120. #120 Two-Bit Specialist says:


    Sorry. I’ll let BD handle this when he finds out.

  121. #121 jpd13 (who is also in a very peaceful place) says:


    I’d put this one in the lose column buddy and live to fight another day. Kevin has been nothing but respectful and has IMO raised some very legitimate points and questions. Also, you never answered my question (all the way back at #65). That’s fine, absolutely your right, but DO NOT be surprised that based on the exchange so far that some customers might get the feeling that you’re OK with what Dan Slott did. If you don’t get why the perceived indifference you’re showing for what Dan did would be concerning to some, then I suggest you check the address of that happy place of yours. Also, any jobs available at Marvel? I’d like to work, or freelance, there with that level of understanding. I’m not saying you’re condoning what he did, but you certainly can’t argue that many will perceive it as such.

    You’ve made it clear that you’re indifferent to what some of your customers here (who are the same as the “friends” you refer to earlier) think about you’re response to this incident, but I’ve gotta tell you, this exchange has been an eye opener for me. You’re the Senior Editor on ASM! You’ve got to expect people/customers are going to look to see how you, a represetative of Marvel, repond the this situation. What I get out of this exchange is that that the Sr. Editor on ASM, a major contributor to the only Marvel (or any comic) title I regularly buy, thinks it’s OK for a freelance he hires to tell their customers to F** off. That’s disappointing.

    Ahhh, if you only cared what I, a paying customer for over 30 years, thought……

  122. #122 Proto Goblin says:

    @Bertone: Well I missed killing Gwen but got the Goblin.

  123. #123 Captain Cheesesteak says:

    LOL @23

  124. #124 erock says:

    Bertone – I do that ASM issue comparison with the mileage on my car . . . I usually have to fill up in the middle of Micheline’s run. Sometimes after a lot of freeway driving I will make it to the Clone Saga.

  125. #125 Venomaniac says:

    To quote Peter in USM “Just for the record, it’s not what you said, but how you said it”
    Dan had an absolute right to defend himself in that position, but I feel his words WERE unprofessional.

    @ Mr. Wacker- I don’t see how being professional to the people that are buying your product is a made-up rule at all. Yes, Dan is a freelancer, but he still is representing the company. And every comment like that he makes drives a potential customer away from him (for example, I have chosen not to buy the Spider-Man/Human Torch mini that I had heard wonderful things about due to the unprofessionalism of Mr. Slott). Look at Tom DeFalco. When Spider-Girl: The End came out, many more people bought it than normal, due tpo the fact that they respected Mr. DeFalco due to his porfessional attitude. Whenever someone does something UNprofessional, it refects very poorly on them and the company. There are classy ways to word disagreements. And I think part of the issue is you are of the perception that everyone is joking about being offended or upset at these comments like it is a show. I can speak for myself that it is not. In fact I am saddened that you guys, who have the potential to have the respect of all your fanbase (even those that disagree with you), have sunk down to the level of the people who insult you. If you show yourselves to be the better men and respond with class, then you can gain a lot of respect form a lot of people, which would go a LONG way to getting the numbers on Amazing Spider-Man to rise :)

  126. #126 Bertone says:


    You are my new best friend! I do that for mileage and other random things. Sometimes on road trips too…

    Will this thread make it to the Wolfman run?

  127. #127 Venomaniac says:

    @Bertone (re #126)
    Depends on if Mr. Wacker returns for more debate…

  128. #128 Javi Trujillo says:

    @107 posting on any forum is a lot like a club and like a club, it has rules. Did Dan violate any of CBR’s? I rarely post over there, so I don’t recall their specifics. However, as someone who has basically had to have been customer service oriented my entire career, I don’t think his comments were appropriate for that forum, a forum discussing a book he works on. Sure, he does have the right to say it, but if I told other people who insulted me about my work what he told them, I would no longer be employed there. I am not stating you need to have him pulled from his book, just that in that particular setting, I can see how others would take umbridge with what went down.

  129. #129 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Two-Bit Specialist: You’ve got yourself your first board warning for comment #115. You don’t take it upon yourself to tell someone to go away, or that they’re annoying.

  130. #130 themanofbat says:

    Spidey fought the Hulk in Montreal…

  131. #131 Flying Tiger says:


    you know the best way to convince people that something isn’t a big deal? NOT MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT. It’s fine over at CBR where there is a bully culture that lets creators play by different rules, but out there in reality, you can’t gloss over dismal sales, a general air of disinterest in the marketplace and outright alienation turning to hostility in the fanbase. You aren’t winning friends here or anywhere by coming the high hat.

    Be nice to people on the way up. You’ll be meeting all of them again on the way down.

  132. #132 Aspman says:

    Wow! What an interesting read today! Quite entertaining on all sides. Kudos to Kevin and Steve for keeping us all entertained! I have no comment on the actual incident, but I do appreciate the fact that it made everyone comment. That being said, can everybody PLEASE stop saying “that being said” or “having said that” or “that said”. Sheesh!

  133. #133 Andrew says:

    This is the funniest thread ever. *eats popcorn*

  134. #134 Epidot says:

    What conversation was Mr. Wacker having? I couldn’t find any of those rules.

  135. #135 Proto Goblin says:

    Well we are halfway through the Gerry Conway run, can’t wait for Green Goblin 2 and Ben Reilly’s first very brief appearance!!!

  136. #136 DiabeticSpidey says:

    I miss the 60’s & 70’s when the Marvel editors cared about the fans. That’s one of the things that helped make Marvel one of the top two comic publishers. I doubt Stan Lee would’ve condoned a writer telling a fan to “F-” himself.

  137. #137 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    @Kevin – I said I was sorry! Does that not count for anything? :(

  138. #138 Andrew says:


    In the 60’s and 70’s, fans didn’t accuse creators of not being real fans or demonize them on online forums. The internet is a two-way street, buddy. If you want respect and cordial relations with creators, then disagree in a civil manner and criticize the work, but don’t be a flaming d-bag and attack them personally as that guy did to Slott (and Two-Bit Specialist did to Wacker @115 in this very thread).

  139. #139 Tonyd117 says:

    @ Andrew – My thoughts exactly. Share some popcorn? :)

  140. #140 Mister Mets says:

    Green Goblin 2!

    I think this part isn’t getting as much attention as it should. “…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…”

    To add to the discussion of how pros should conduct themselves online, how seriously should we take comments made by people who were probably physically ill at the time?

  141. #141 DiabeticSpidey says:

    By the way, I am sorry to hear that Dan Slott isn’t or wasn’t feeling well. I really hope he recovers or has recovered by now.

  142. #142 Josh (Venom65437) says:

    I have nothing to add but felt compelled to throw my name in this super long thread. I don’t really like to argue on the internet.

  143. #143 Mister Mets says:

    Seems a few new comments popped up while I was writing my earlier post (and making tea and doing other stuff) so I didn’t cover either part of Conway’s first Green Goblin tale. If it matters, I will note that I’m a mod at the Spider-Man forum at CBR, and that I was banned from the Crawl Space an year ago or so. I didn’t delete Slott’s comment or disagree with the decision.

    @spideydude re: posts #1&7- It seems that Slott got off the computer after he made the comment.

    @spideydude re: post #10- Why bring up Wacker’s comment in a new discussion, without providing a link to the original comment in its full context?

    @clonesaga re: post #18- Was Slott actually banned from the Crawl Space? I was under the impression it was slightly more nuanced.

    @Batgirl re: post #22- Why can’t someone simultaneously be a fan and a professional? If someone’s a fan, isn’t the suggestion that they’re not a fan akin to a personal insult?

    @Keenan re: post #32- It’s common for people to do something else while they should be resting. It doesn’t mean that they’re not sick.

    @spideydude re: post #33- What do you mean by “The rest of CBR is good at that”?

  144. #144 Flying Tiger says:

    Slott’s appeal for sympathy due to his dramatic and unspecified illness is as silly as his four letter wording to a customer. There is some seriously warped adolescent behaviour going on, and most of it is leaking out of the Quesada-verse.

  145. #145 Andrew says:


    Two-Bit Specialist, why don’t you apologize to Steve Wacker for telling him to go away, rather than just Kevin or Bertone? Also are you apologizing because you genuinely feel bad about what you said or because you don’t want to get in trouble (ban or warning)?


    Tony you get the popcorn, I’ll get the cokes. 😀

  146. #146 themanofbat says:

    I hope I can post for #148… that was my first issue of ASM I bought back in 1975…

    Spidey battles the Scorpion in this 2 parter…

  147. #147 themanofbat says:

    Then we had the Tarantula…

  148. #148 themanofbat says:

    Yay…. ASM #148… my first issue.


  149. #149 George Berryman says:

    “Dan is not an employee and isn’t held to the same standards I am.” — Wacker

    But surely the two of you both represent Marvel Comics, yes? Or does Dan, as the non-employee who also just happens to be the sole writer for Marvel’s most famous flagship character, not represent the company at all? Because if he’s not he sure does do a lot of interviews promoting Marvel projects.

    What’s sad is that for so long now I’ve been correctly pointing out that Marvel’s attitude towards many of their fans is “Hey, go f-ck yourself,” so this wasn’t so shocking to me. Nonetheless Slott proved precisely what I’d been saying about Marvel’s attitude, and did it verbatim.

  150. #150 George McMillan says:

    slotts totally right

  151. #151 Mister Mets says:

    @Kevin Cushing re: post #38- There is the argument that in this industry, an individual writer is less replaceable than a generic employee. Deciding otherwise demonstrates that the quality of the material isn’t the top priority of the people in charge.

    @Gerard Delatour re: post #51- The Crawl Space has different policies than CBR. But it doesn’t mean that I would have reacted differently to a possible overreaction by an ordinary poster at CBR whom I knew to be ill at the time of the comment, than my Co-Mod did with Dan Slott.

    And shouldn’t you argue with Kevin Cushing, when he says that professionals should have reasonable limits on what they say online, suggesting that they shouldn’t be treated the same as ordinary posters?

    @Gerard Delatour re: post #62- CBR & the Crawl Space have different policies when it comes to the handling of inappropriate comments. What works for you guys may not work as effectively for us, and vice versa.

    @Kevin Cushing re: post #84- Did Steve Wacker explicitly say he was cool with what Dan Slott said?

  152. #152 Javi Trujillo says:

    “shut the *$#& up and give me your money!” indeed!

  153. #153 George Berryman says:

    Thanks for the clarification at what happened on CBR’s end. It all had a very “brush it under the rug and try to pretend it never happened” feel to it; thank God that wasn’t the case, huh?

  154. #154 Bertone says:

    Dang we passed through the original Clone Saga.

  155. #155 Fred says:

    Met’s, why were you banned again?

  156. #156 Bertone says:

    Fred I’m stopping you right there. You may want to contact Mets about this outside of CS, because this slipperly slope will get even more slippery.

    Also this is Betty and Ned’s wedding.

  157. #157 Kevin Cushing says:

    I’m not going to get into most of what’s being said now, because I’ve debated it to death today. I do want to answer Mr. Mets’ question in #143, though. No, Dan Slott was not banned from the Crawl Space. He did incur one official warning during his time here, but in the end he asked us to deactivate his account.

  158. #158 Fred says:

    No Problem:)

  159. #159 newboyz says:

    Hmm I think I’m more offended by the fact that people are still bringing professionalism into the argument professional begins and ends in the work place what we are disscusing isn’t a matter of professionalism it’s a matter of ethics and manners was what Dan said ethical…no did he have manners… No but he’s entitled to defend himself I think what that fab said was tantamount to the fuck you that Dan gave him back. Those of you who bring professionalism up in this case are off base I think the behavior of Dan has not interfered with his ability to write asm granted it may be off putting but unprofessional I think not. Thus was said in a forum not in dialogue of the characters he writes nor does it appear in the letter column this is a matter of ethics and maybe Dan fails on being a moral poster but I don’t think this affects his ability to work and if marvel were to take action I think it would be a gross misuse of power. Barack Obama called kanye west a jackass does that mean he isn’t capAble of being president I think not . Pls folks let’s not make this about professionalism because clearly this is a matter of morals, ethics and manners. And while I’m certain the next argument is how can a man who displayed lack of morals write the most moral chAracter in the marvel library my argument is that it hasn’t done anything damaging to spider-man thus far. Some readers may stop reading I doubt this will hurt the sales very much it might have shave off a few hundred sales but nothing dramatic

    on a sidenote th headline for this story is a little misleading, and i hope it was written this way on accident and not as a way to get a further rise out of any of the posters as this is alreasy a heated arguement. maybe a correction or a retraction for a misquote is in order.

  160. #160 hermann22 says:

    Wow…..Big props to Wacker coming in and defending his boy. How many people’s “boss’s” would come and do that for ya?

  161. #161 George Berryman says:

    “How many people’s “boss’s” would come and do that for ya?”

    The ones concerned with damage control.

  162. #162 hermann22 says:

    If he wanted to do damage control I don’t think he would be acting the way he was. *shrugs*

  163. #163 J.garrett says:

    All i’m going to say is that If I am representing a company by contributing content then I should be held accountable for my interactions with the company’s demographic. As a writer of the story( Claiming that it is your dream job) then you should be held to a higher standard then your fans.

  164. #164 Jonny says:

    I can only wonder if front page new stories could be locked how long ago this would of been locked…..

  165. #165 Enigma_2099 says:


    Damage control? Looks like he’s just here to pick on Kevin. And he calls himself a professional?

    All I’m gonna say on the matter is this… if the guy said something to Slott to set him off, maybe he had it coming. I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But I’m willing to bet if it was anyone else who used that line, they would have got a warning or a ban.

    If it was me, and he said something that sought me off, then I probably would have done the same thing. So I’m not going to say that he shouldn’t have done it. Hell, I get mad at people too. but if one person is expected to be civil and follow rules of etiquette on a board, the same should go for everyone else.

    Slott, if he had it coming, then you were in your right. BUT, if I can’t tell someone to go f*** themselves on a message board, then I’m afraid that in the interest of fairness, you shouldn’t be able to, either. And if they let YOU get away with it and delete the evidence, then guess what…?

    BTW, hope you’re felling better. I’m trying to get over a nasty cold myself…

  166. #166 Web-Head says:

    …Anybody want a peanut?

  167. #167 herbiepopnecker says:

    I don’t think Steve Wacker is doing his or marvel’s image
    any good with his comments.

  168. #168 Flying Tiger says:

    It’s Christmas in Manhattan and all through the house…the Lizard and Stegron the Dinosaur Man are trying to rip Spider-Man limb from limb!

    Loved that issue.

    Stegron… and there was Sauron too right? Or was Stegron Sauron?

    CBR has devalued itself in this debacle too because its double standard and propaganda stance is on public show.

  169. #169 BD says:

    So I just got home from work and saw the comments, wow. New record for comments by far.

    I just re-read the comments and here’s the readers digest version.

    Wacker defends Slott by saying he’s not a Marvel employee so he’s free to say whatever he wants. He doesn’t represent Marvel?

    Other’s think it’s ok for a person selling a product to insult the customer?

    And several people took me to task for the headline title? Did he not tell someone to f-themselves? Seriously, how is the headline off?

    Oh and I love the game of posts=ASM issue. I’m 169, JJ just discovered Pete’s ID.

  170. #170 Jonny says:

    I’d like to add one thing

    When I read the headline (and the headline only), my first reaction was this had to be fake “No way, he didn’t do that, this must be some odd kind of joke” or “Someones hacked the crawl space and is posting articles to damage Dans image, no way he’s go as far to actually tell a fan to go fuck himself”

    But I was wrong, I was someone who actually gave Dan the benefit of the doubt and I was wrong for doing so, just food for thought.

  171. #171 Jonny says:

    BD, i’d argue that something like “Slott tells argumentative fan to go fuck themselves” or something that relays that the guy was being a douche to Dan Slott himself that actually warranted the rebuttal would sit better with anyone that disagrees.

  172. #172 newboyz says:

    @BD i think its just a little off beacuse at glance it sounds like it says he said it to all fans instead of just the one fan not justifying it it just seems like a direct quote would have worked better is all.

  173. #173 Andrew says:


    BD I think the heading, while technically accurate, is taken out of context. It wasn’t like Slott told any random fan to go f*** themselves. He told a particularly insulting poster who baited him, and surprise, was shocked when Slott actually insulted him back. Context is everything.

  174. #174 briandz says:

    This was a pretty shocking display by Steven Wacker…. I stunned by the tone and general attitude of his comment. My opinion they came off very poorly. Man…

  175. #175 Spideydude says:

    Mr Mets:

    “I didn’t delete Slott’s comment or disagree with the decision.”

    So, let me guess: This was a management thing, considering that you’re a news site and all, you don’t want that on the site… Pray tell, what is the management reason?

    “@spideydude re: posts #1&7- It seems that Slott got off the computer after he made the comment.”

    Oh Nice. Snarky. Yes, I’m sure that he did. But I am saying in general.

    “@spideydude re: post #10- Why bring up Wacker’s comment in a new discussion, without providing a link to the original comment in its full context?”

    Comment 27.

    @clonesaga re: post #18- Was Slott actually banned from the Crawl Space? I was under the impression it was slightly more nuanced.

    No. He like Kevin said, he received a single warning.

    “@Batgirl re: post #22- Why can’t someone simultaneously be a fan and a professional? If someone’s a fan, isn’t the suggestion that they’re not a fan akin to a personal insult?”

    See: DeFalco, Tom.

    As for the CBR Comment… I’ll leave you to your own rationale for my reasoning.

  176. #176 Bertone says:

    Enter Bart Hamilton.

  177. #177 Kevin Cushing says:

    @Jonny (re: #164)

    We can disable comments on front page stories whenever we like, but we prefer to allow free and open discussion on topics as long as they don’t degenerate into flame wars.

  178. #178 Jack Brooks says:

    How Slott reacted, and what he said, made him the moral equivalent of leejayjay. Two wrongs don’t make a right, they make two wrong-doers.

    Everyone who gets paid by a company represents that company, especially if they interact with customers.

    This hostility isn’t an out-of-the-ordinary aberration by Slott, it’s a habitual pattern.

    CBR has a double-standard.

  179. #179 JoJo Ellis Clay says:


    I completely agree. It’s just not that black and white. It’s all about the context. He wasn’t insulting some innocent victim, he was insulting a spiteful man spewing garbage all over him and which everyone could see. I believe sometimes you have to purge the impuities.


    How did you feel about the way some of the posters interacting with him came off? Not just here, but on the message boards over the year? Respect runs both ways and considering the acrimony directed his way from this place in the past, I can hardly blame him for his attitude. Slott/Wacker hatred seems to be the raison d’etre for many people on this site.

  180. #180 BD says:

    Thank you for summing up the site for the rest of us. Oh by the way, I’ve never seen you post here, but thanks for your observation on your first post.

  181. #181 Enigma_2099 says:

    This thread is going to set a record.

  182. #182 Nat says:

    Haha, Right on Slott!!!

  183. #183 DMaynor says:

    I just wanted to be part of history : )

  184. #184 Flying Tiger says:

    This isn’t out of character for Wacker or Slott. They’ve dumped on people a LOT on CBR and on slender or no provocation. Singling out leejayjay and slott over this single episode of the war is like picking one battle in 1942 and saying that was the start of WW2.

    Some Marvel people have a history of being very adolescent and rude, and it’s escalated to what we have now. It ain’t pretty, and it’s Marvel’s mess to fix.

    Spidey 182- Rocket Racer AND Big Wheel. In other news, it sold, what, like 3 times, 4 times what the currenst ASM is doing? Ouch.

  185. #185 Andrew says:

    @180 BD

    Are we going to start attacking people based on how active they are at posting in the comments now? I lurked for years before I posted, but that doesn’t render my opinion any less valid or legitimate. Are you dismissing him because you believe this is the first time he’s posting and as such doesn’t deserve to voice his opinion… or because his observation hit a little too close to home? I’ve seen some pretty nasty stuff posted about Quesada here since OMD/BND began.

  186. #186 J.garrett says:

    I’m sorry but this I can’t believe this guy still has a job.

    ……btw, ASM185, peter’s graduation!

  187. #187 Javi Trujillo says:

    I’d love to hit post 200 (Burglar vs. Pete round 2!) but it’s time for bed. Maybe I can grab Venom’s first appearance in the morning!

  188. #188 Jack Brooks says:

    One another thing: sympathizing with why a guy says something is different from whether or not it was right or smart to say it.

  189. #189 Flying Tiger says:

    Is this being discussed at CBR, or is it another “never happened” moment at the amnesia forum? Does CBR have a psychic blindspot like Earth-666 Spider-Man?

  190. #190 Jack Brooks says:


  191. #191 BD says:

    My biggest problem with JoJo is that both of you have generalized about this site but have yet to provide any personal attacks about the creators. If they were attacks about the person themselves they will get a warning. Three of them they’re banned.
    LOL@ Flying Tiger.

  192. #192 George Berryman says:

    @189 – “Is this being discussed at CBR, or is it another “never happened” moment at the amnesia forum? Does CBR have a psychic blindspot like Earth-666 Spider-Man?”

    Well it certainly seems odd to rewrite history like that…

  193. #193 Berserkfury819 says:

    Wakka Wakka.

  194. #194 Spideydude says:

    I wonder if Slott is too sick to respond…

  195. #195 Wheatcakes says:

    I’ve often enjoyed Mr Wacker’s comments and realized that he’s simply yanking people’s chains or trying to get a reaction. I’m sure he sits and chuckles at some of these when he sees fans explode at every little “indignity” they feel Marvel has heaped upon Spidey. Sometimes I sit here and chuckle right along with him, I’m sure we all have from time to time.

    But Mr Wacker, considering you asked specifically to be deactivated from this site so you wouldn’t have a connection with it anymore, and then the inciting comments you’ve thrown at Kevin above when in my opinion he’s been most gracious to you, it’s getting pretty hard to defend you in any capacity as of late (for what it’s worth from a fan who no longer purchases ASM).

    In fact, I’ll go a little farther and say that with Mr Slott’s reaction at CBR, I can at least understand where it came from and why. With your postings above, I don’t get it. It’s like you’re going out of your way to purposely bait and upset people. Very disappointing.

  196. #196 CrazyChris says:

    This reminds me of something I wrote for a BND retrospective editorial on this very site, back in July 2010. My thoughts are pretty much the same now as they were back then. Surreally so, in fact.

    Me from July:

    “Because comic professionals comment on our articles every now and then, I’ll impart some advice to any who might be reading: stop arguing on message boards. While the internet might not represent fandom as a whole, there’s a good chance that people willing to while away time on a Spider-Man forum are your most passionate readers. We are people you want on your side. We’re the people who keep those casual, non-internet fans you claim to target updated on of the world of comics, and we’re the ones out there trying to win new converts. We’re the ones actually reading those Newsarama interviews you do and relaying the content to others. Right or wrong, we’re your direct line to your universe of potential readers.

    I can think of a writer who everyone loved before Brand New Day. Everyone respected this person and he showed up on EVERY list of desired writers to replace Straczynski. The fans got their wish, but that good will has vanished because this person made a hobby out of diving into internet threads and competing in mudslinging matches with his own readers. Does he make valid points, occasionally? Do the message board posters frequently overreact and exaggerate the level of hostility he actually displays? Yes and yes. However, that doesn’t matter because it makes him look bad just participating in these fights, just putting himself in an antagonistic position. You can never change the mind of the people you’re arguing with, and spectators will only see you as abrasive. Why would you do that to your relationship with the most potent potential proselytizers of your work?

    In the information age, the sense of community between fans is just as important to the overall experience of reading comics as the work itself. Comic professionals should use that community to enhance the experience, not make it bitter. There will always be abrasive, unfair, factually-incorrect, idiotic, self-entitled assholes on the internet saying the work sucks. The best thing for professionals to do is disengage from them. Focus on the good, build on the community instead of fighting it, and folks will WANT to like the work. That is all.”

  197. #197 BD says:

    Bravo to CrazyChris, that’s one of the best posts of all of them.

    197 baby, Kingpin’s steppin on Spidey.

  198. #198 herbiepopnecker says:

    Re #193 – Are we allowed to post something like that?

  199. #199 Javi Trujillo says:

    issue 199 “now yousee me, now you die!” with mysterio!

  200. #200 Javi Trujillo says:

    and 200! turns out I couldn’t sleep! and no, it wasn’t because of this thread! Return of the BUrglar!

  201. #201 Joseph says:

    Should this have been really posted. It’s such a negative post to see for the holidays :(. It’s the internet, and apparently there are no rules so how can one reason or justify anything on here. Its difficult.

  202. #202 George Berryman says:

    @201 – Joseph, it’s a Spider-Man message board. This involves the writer of ASM.

  203. #203 Andrew says:

    Oh great. The Denny O’Neil era is here. Denny O’Neil’s era sucked. :-(

  204. #204 CrazyChris says:

    @201 OH NO CHRISTMAS IS RUINED! You’re a mean one, Mr. Douglas…

  205. #205 Spideydude says:

    GB for the win.

  206. #206 Berserkfury819 says:

    This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends. Some members started posting it not knowing what it was, and they’ll continue reading it forever just because this is the thread that never ends…

  207. #207 Flying Tiger says:

    Mesmero. Curiously appropriate that we’re in the Deborah Whitman / hallucination era.

    MJ and Peter were all a dream… all a dream…

  208. #208 Flying Tiger says:

    The secret to the “man behind the curtain” aspect of Wacker, Slott et al is that the book is NOT doing well, they aren’t universally praised or even praised by a majority of recent readers – 80,000 of whom have stopped buying the book- so they are trying to run a sort of amateur hour agitprop about how awesomely cool it is. If they stopped doing this they’d actually get a lot more support. But the stench of villain sue, mary sue and general malaise is strong, and the heavy hand of Joe Q is felt and so out they go to support the insupportable.

    They really should just not interact with people online, if this is the outcome, let alone lead people into absurd fan / not a fan dichotomies. Fans are supposed to be what? How do you define it? All Marvel cares about is dollars anyway. It’s like people running a peepshow calling the guys who pay a dollar to see a flash of skin “art lovers”.

  209. #209 Mark says:

    Part of being professional is, when Slott decided (right or wrong) to slap down the meathead (which it sounds like that initial poster was), he should have had a lot more style. I expect a lot better from the writer of ASM than to revert to the cliched and simplistic f-bomb. It’s possible to stay classy, be able to defend yourself, AND still put a poozer in it’s place.

    I know it is fictional characters, but think of how Flash Thompson tormented Parker in the early issues. As frustrated as Peter was, he didn’t lose his temper and break Flash’s arm, which he could have done very easily. Because Peter knew which people in his life were important, which opinions really mattered to him. (And which opinions were so idiotic that they shouldn’t be given any weight.)

  210. #210 Berserkfury819 says:

    I think this was a plot to make us all forget how much ASM 649 sucked.

  211. #211 AmFan15 says:

    Umm…yeah, you guys might want to postpone the “Live Caller” show for a week or two…just a suggestion!

    #209-“To Salvage My Honor”…how appropriate is THAT title today!

  212. #212 BD says:

    AMFAM-Why should we delay the live callers? Is it because we’ll take 200 people on the line?

    212-1st Hydro Man people!

  213. #213 AmFan15 says:

    LMAO! The podcast will be about 96 hours long!

    No, I’m just saying that temperatures might still be a little heated, is all. I know you guys can handle it, but it might get a little sticky. You won’t be able to edit that stuff out. (Not that you ever edit things out anyway! There’s a podcast drinking game: Drink every time Brad says “I’ll edit that out!”) XD

    I’m still eagerly anticipating it, even though I won’t be able to participate. I know I sound dumb, but I don’t have the slightest clue about the whole skype thing…Maybe I’ll look into it, and join in next year!

  214. #214 Proto Goblin says:

    @213: You and me both when it comes to not understanding skype, you and me both. When I first heard about the call in show I though it was a literal phone in thing, although that would have racked up long distance good.

  215. #215 AmFan15 says:

    @214: I’m glad I’m not the only one! Cheers!

  216. #216 Flying Tiger says:

    ASM 216: “By my powers shall I be vanquished!”

    Bit like Mr. Slott wiping himself out by writing…

  217. #217 Jon M. Wilson says:

    Dan Slott has absolutely no business behaving that way. I don’t care if he’s on salary with full benefits through Marvel or a subcontractor of a subcontractor. He’s the fucking writer of The Amazing Spider-Man, and that makes him the face of Marvel. He needs to behave or get out of the pool. Was the person with whom he was speaking out of line? Definitely. Should it have been handled differently by Dan? There are so many ways he could have done that better.

    ASM 217 has a fight with Spidey, Hydro Man and Sandman that ends with the two baddies merging into a mud monster.

  218. #218 J.garrett says:

    LOL at Jon,
    ASM 218: two lesser being combining into a singular bag of douche! amazing

  219. #219 jvl1031 says:

    I just wanted to contribute my part to all this. Out of curiosity, has there ever been this many comments on a topic on the homepage of the Crawlspace?

  220. #220 BD says:

    JVL: Nope, this is a first.

  221. #221 AmFan15 says:

    217 was also entitled “Here’s Mud In Your Eye!”
    Appropriate, given all the mud that’s being slung…

  222. #222 Andrew says:

    C’mon guys… just a year and a half left of issues before we get the introduction of the HOBGOBLIN!!!

    We’re already in the 80’s. We can do this!

    oh, and uh, everyone’s right and everyone’s wrong. On the internet, stress gets the better of us. I empathize with Slott, but don’t condone or sympathize, yadda yadda, insert generic response. ;-P

  223. #223 Bertone says:

    Last issue of the O’Neil run…THANK GOODNESS!

  224. #224 Flying Tiger says:

    Slott is so sick… but he can still tweet his ass off. About decompression of all things.

  225. #225 Andrew says:

    Gee, Flying Tiger, got a bit of an axe to grind, eh? This is the third or fourth time you’ve brought up Slott’s illness. Last I checked, being sick didn’t impair your typing skills*, but it can make you foggy-headed, stress you out and impair your judgement, all of which could factor into Slott’s rash reply.

    (* unless you have one of those freaky diseases that shut down your whole nervous system, in which case you should immediately see a DOCTOR!!)

  226. #226 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    @Andrew (from all the way back in #145)

    I clearly had about 40 issues to reflect upon my actions. 😉

    To allude to what you brought up, I will do this: if Mr. Wacker has bothered to continue reading this thread, I offer a word of apology. I run no multi-million dollar company. I do not promote a product that should be associated with quality. I do not own a brand that has a massive fanbase.

    All I have is my name. That name is Aaron Romero, Jr. It is a name that may not mean much to anybody, certainly not here, but because my actions ultimately reflect upon that name and the reputation that name carries, I apologize, because even if your actions called for it, it was not my place to do what I did.

    Now, if I can do this, certainly men of greater position and talent than my own are capable to do the same as well.

  227. #227 spideymouse says:

    I did a double take when I saw the number of comments in this thread. And like many before me, I’m mostly commenting to be part of Crawlspace history!

    I do wish the title used “himself” or “him/herself”, to be a little bit less grammatically ambiguous. Although it says “fan,” the use of the word “themselves” threw me off. Man, the internet can really bring out the best and worst in people, can’t it?

  228. #228 Flying Tiger says:

    Slott was the one with the poor lil me routine. He brought it up.

    As for having an ax to grind: no not at all. Calling bullshit =/= having an ax to grind.

  229. #229 iron_patriot says:

    229-Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaut!(b*tch) which is kinda appropriate for this comment section
    Nothing to add really,I’m just here to say I posted a comment on something as massive as this

  230. #230 Andrew says:


    Two Bit Specialist, that was very classy of you. :-) I’m sure you’re a reasonable guy and Wacker is usually a reasonable guy. I think the internet does tend to bring the worst out of us at times, and that applies to fans and creators alike. It’s much easier to type stinging words than to say them to someone’s face. All we can hope to do is remember there’s another person on the other side of that monitor and try to to check ourselves when we realize we’ve gone too far.

  231. #231 ChaosInc says:

    Wow this has gone so long you can’t even see the top.

    What were we talking about again? All I remember from looking through these comments last night is the awesome ASM issue game. 😉

  232. #232 Flying Tiger says:

    CBR spawned a nightmare in PR for its pals at Marvel when the long running bitchfest between people who despise OMD, BND, OMIT and BT, and who have been sniped at incessantly by Wacker and Slott, sometimes in retaliation sometimes to further Wacker’s self-espoused agenda to anger and frustrate people who like Spider-Man finally broke out into open warfare. Slott told a poster on CBR to fuck himself – twice. Shades of Tropic Thunder? Only not funny. At the time.

  233. #233 Jack Bauer says:

    Just because you can act like a ass, doesn’t mean you should.

    While he had every right to defend himself, there was certainly no need to tell him to F off. Is there any common curtiosy left in this world?

  234. #234 Tonyd117 says:

    I have a solution that will prevent this from ever happening again. Can we add a line to the labels of any medication writers may be taking? Put it right under the “Do not operate heavy machinery” line. Something like, “Do not take this medication and type on message boards.” There. Problem solved.

  235. #235 Flying Tiger says:

    Will-o-Wisp and the monsterfied Tarantula… They shouldn’t have taken their meds, fo sho.

  236. #236 Andrew says:

    @233, I don’t think there’s any common curtiosy. There is still common courtesy last I checked though. 😉

  237. #237 Berserkfury819 says:

    How about “skin must be this thick to write Spider-Man.”

  238. #238 Jack Bauer says:

    @236, Ha, you got me there.

    {Yes, it’s 5:30 in the morning and I needs some sleep}

  239. #239 BDog says:

    Um wow. This got 238 comments…jesus…

  240. #240 Mark says:

    BDog, you just skipped over Hobby getting his ass thoroughly kicked (in issue 239) !

    The Stern years… Respected continuity, and managed to make lesser characters like the Vulture interesting and a threat to Spidey.

  241. #241 herbiepopnecker says:

    If I ever said to one of our clients (and we got ’em nation-wide)
    THOSE three little words, you can believe my bosses wouldn’t
    be as supportive as Wacker. Interesting biz, the comics profession…

  242. #242 Newboyz says:

    @ 217 u just said that Slott couldn’t behave like a human being simply because hes writing spiderman a true writer had the ability to create/ write characters different from thrmselves

  243. #243 Mark says:

    @Newboyz: What are you talking about? @217 said there were better ways for Slott to reply to a meathead, besides acting like a meathead himself. Nothing about “couldn’t behave like a human being”.

    243: MJ is back, in style!

  244. #244 Stephen Wacker says:

    This is getting boring. Berryton should pretend to know everything again.

    Also more from the Dude classlessly insinuating Slott was faking sick, please.

    Oh…and shame on the person who suggested our fans should be treated like clients. That’s shameful.

  245. #245 Bertone says:

    Boring Wacker? Don’t you like the issue number game ? :(

  246. #246 herbiepopnecker says:

    Hmmmm…Steve…aren’t most fans clients?
    As in handing-over-their-hard-earned-money fans/clients/customers?

    I’m just sayin’.

    And nobody here was pretending to know everything, ever.
    Well…actually…I know everything. But dag – I keep forgetting it…

    If I were a mod, I’d call you on that last, line-bordering post, but I’m not.

  247. #247 Stephen Wacker says:

    Fans are not clients, but “mod” me all you want.

    ASM 247 reminds me of:

  248. #248 Barrel Jumper says:

    @Stephen Wacker re:#244

    Fans shouldn’t be treated like clients? Ok…well this is certainly an example of not treating a person with RESPECT (on both counts).

    While I’m glad to see Mr. Wacker here…I keep waiting for one SOLID answer from him. All I’ve read though are cheapshots and jokes that he’s sent out to deflect comments and avoid the issue.


  249. #249 phillyradiogeek says:

    I looked at this thread and decided, “There’s just not enough comments! I’ll do my best to remedy that!”

    I’ll make my points fast: The original CBR fan poster took a cheap shot at Slott, Slott cursed at him. Did either person act in the best way possible? No. Then again, in the grand scheme of things, I don’t think any of this matters. Slott will continue to write ASM, the fan poster will continue with his/her life, Wacker will continue to edit, and the CrawlSpace crew will go on with their lives. What happened is no different than getting cut off on the road and flipping the bird back at that person. It’s not a great experience, but it happens, and life goes on.

    Now everyone on all sides, back to your respective corners.

    And besides, it’s December. ‘Tis the season to be jolly!

  250. #250 Stephen Wacker says:

    Sorry, butdo i have some obligation to jump through your barrels?


  251. #251 AmFan15 says:

    #247 reminds you of 24/7…it reminds me of a story called (appropriately enough) “Interruptions!”

    Things were finally starting to die down a little here, Mr. Wacker…which leads me to ask why you decided to come back?

  252. #252 Stephen Wacker says:

    huh? Why is lack of conversation desirable on a comments thread?

    Are you asking me to leave? You aren’t really Amazing Fantasy 15 are you?


  253. #253 herbiepopnecker says:

    SW, you are not making yourself or marvel look good with your comments…

    Do you have an obligation to jump through our barrels?
    Silly boy, at the crawlspace tiki bar, we have casks, not barrels.
    Pull up a chair, quaff a quaff or two and retreat to your happy place…

    Meanwhile remembering that “clients” is another word for “paying customers”.

    Reading between the lines about your “‘mod’ me all you want…” comment,
    I apologize for not realizing you were a ROCKER, not a Mod. Rock on, then, rock on!

  254. #254 AmFan15 says:

    No, I’m simply curious is all…

    And Amazing Fantasy #15 introduced the world to a true hero, one that we could relate to, look up to, and admire.
    One that I mourn the loss of.

    “With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility”
    It’s not just a catchphrase…it’s a way of life.

  255. #255 PirateBeck says:

    This is probably not the best place to make a first post I admit but this kind of issue is one that can’t really be avoided. While Slott does indeed have the right to state his opinion when someone calls his work into question, I also think he could have been far more professional about it. Using such language, especially on a public forum in which your identity is known is not the brightest idea. If he had done it anonymously, fine, none of us would have known it was him but I think to use such strong language isn’t a great move on his behalf.

    Ah ASM #252, the first appearence of the black suit in the main titles and the final issue of Roger Stern’s first ASM run. Was just listening to Brad’s interview with him and I have to say it was a great listen. Keep up the good work BD!

  256. #256 Alex says:

    Dang I missed the Black Suit.

  257. #257 Stephen Wacker says:

    And I don’t think most of you are making this website…or barrell jumping or old Herbie comics… look too good, but what are ya gonna do? Life’s just crazy, ain’t it?

    Marvel is gonna be fine with or without me. However do you think this website can survive Dan Slott telling off some anonymous guy on another message board? This could be the end of everything you hold dear!!


  258. #258 Stephen Wacker says:

    @AmFan 15

    You got the responsibility quote wrong. You aren’t really a fan, are you?


  259. #259 Stephen Wacker says:

    Also Brad Douglas owes me dinner for this.

    I will accept a frozen concrete from Ted Drewes.


  260. #260 AmFan15 says:

    Sadly, everything I hold dear about Spider-Man was ruined long ago…

  261. #261 AmFan15 says:

    And I WAS a fan…back when the Spider-Man comics were actually GOOD.

    Ah, memories…No retcon will ever take those away from me!

  262. #262 Javi Trujillo says:

    Mr. Wacker, your various posts seem very snarky. Is that the best way to treat paying customers, even if they are not thrilled with the current product? It turns me off, personally.

  263. #263 herbiepopnecker says:

    Ah, but have you tried barrel jumping while bag/boarding old Herbie comics
    …while posting on this site?
    You wanna talk about crazy?!? Well, there ya go!

  264. #264 herbiepopnecker says:

    @262 – Sad and true; the man holds a more responsible
    position with the company than Slott does. More than one
    of us has commented on the attitude.

  265. #265 George Berryman says:

    “Berryton,” Wacker?

    Seriously? You want to be the one to start making fun of someone else’s name?

  266. #266 AmFan15 says:

    I’m not sure it was an insult, George…he’s probably not familiar with who you are.

    Like he isn’t familiar with who Peter Parker is.

  267. #267 herbiepopnecker says:

    So Wacker posts….well…stuff.
    Let’s consider his position with marvel as
    we gaze upon his comments.

    Kevin, on the other hand, posts in response
    to someone’s comment that Wacker should
    go away, that these kinds of comments will
    not be tolerated.

    It’s called class, what Kevin has.

    I wanna make fun of people’s names!!!

  268. #268 Aspman says:

    #266 This Man, This Frog!
    Gotta love it! That being said……………………

  269. #269 Aspman says:

    oops #268 Secret wars

  270. #270 herbiepopnecker says:

    @268/269 – Oooh!! Oooh! I wanna make fun of his name!! :-p

  271. #271 Stephen Wacker says:

    Sorry for the mistyping of the name. (However, I didn’t know “Berryton” was an insult of some kind.)

    Feel free to make fun if my name if you wish. I’ve lived with it for a couple decades now and have heard them all from folks like yourself.



  272. #272 AmFan15 says:

    Alright, people, let’s not start making fun of his name…we can’t be torn down to his level.
    Let’s continue to hold ourselves up to a higher standard.
    When you begin throwing insults, it only makes you look worse…Right, Mr. Wacker?

  273. #273 Proto Goblin says:

    Damnit I can’t remember what issue 273 is, why couldn’t it be the Mephisto Beyonder issue, why?!!!!!!

  274. #274 herbiepopnecker says:

    Why…why…I’m insulated. Or something.

    At least it wasn’t “Poornecker”.

    Can’t imagine too many original spins on
    “Wacker”, after all, you’ve had the name
    a long time. Maybe even your whole life?

    As for variations of my real name, I’ve heard
    most of ’em – even contributed a few myself!

  275. #275 herbiepopnecker says:

    P.S.: You want I should bop you with this here lollipop?

  276. #276 Proto Goblin says:

    Hobgoblin Unmasked at last!!! Oh no wait its just Flash Thompson.

  277. #277 Javi Trujillo says:

    Cry of the Wendigo (no, not THAT Wendigo) Charles Vess!

  278. #278 ChaosInc says:

    (Just going back to this for a bit) @ 247 Stephen Wacker: I can kinda see what you’re getting at with “Fans are not clients” but it’s not entirely accurate.

    You can be a fan of something but not a “client” of it, like I’m a Superman fan but I don’t buy the comics or merchandise, but people buying the comics are fans. It’s more a case of ‘Not all fans are clients, but all clients are fans’. (if that makes any sense)

  279. #279 George Berryman says:

    AmFan15 – He’s plenty familiar with my name.

  280. #280 Venomaniac says:

    @Mr. Wacker

    Wait… fans are not clients?
    Then what ARE they?

  281. #281 CRM says:

    A client relationship generally refers to someone who purchases long term services, advice or guidance in a professional or legal manner. An individual who purchases comic books is a customer, there is not necassarily a long term relationship (though in this case there probably is), there is no legal or professional interaction, and there is no advice or guidance provided.

  282. #282 Spideysteuk says:

    Hey SW, just wondering, why are bashing peoples names? secondly customers and clients are the same thing, you’re an editor and coming onto a site and arguing with people about albiet one of your staff tellling you;re customers to F Off who was baited i agree but shouldnt you be the bigger man and walk away.

    I’ve been Amazing and own nearly 400+ Issues and i have the complete Brand New Day collection and you and dan by doing this are showing clearly what you think of customers and what you’re EIC has said and what you as an editor put in in the first issue of Brand New Day which is :


    Congrats by the way, you’ve made my decision to drop Amazing A WHOLE LOT EASIER!

  283. #283 FSUSpiderfan says:

    282 I came to play with X-Factor.

  284. #284 FSUSpiderfan says:

    Dammit Spideysteuk posted before me and made mine make no sense…

  285. #285 Jack Brooks says:

    Is Marvel a company or a frat-house?

  286. #286 Flying Tiger says:

    Wacker: Attention Whore.

    Also it isn’t possible to assert yourself when your boy is the one further in the wrong than the other poster.

    Finally, and for the last time, it was Slott who opened the door on the momma’s boy stuff about his illness. He made it one of his several alibis.

    He and you are both non-hackers. You do better at Creepy Bullying Robots than out here in the deeps.

  287. #287 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    If I’m playing the game right, this is “Gang War. Part 4” with Daredevil, Hobby, and the Kingpin.

    And if I can be reprimanded for something that didn’t even have any strong language or malicious intent, I fear for you now, Flying Tiger.

  288. #288 drewr15 says:

    #288 – Hopefully this gang war will finally come to an end. ; )

  289. #289 Stephen Wacker says:

    Flying Tiger, it’s Christmas. Be at peace, my friend. Be an open hand, not a closed fist.

    Sorry about futzing up George’s name, but I don’t think our relationship is as deep as he pretends it is around here.

    And to the guy who asked:
    I consider the people who buy our books readers and fans (and certainly high-class comic connoisseurs) , not “clients”. In this relationship, I’m the “client” that writers sell stories to.

    I have more respect for our readers than some of you seem to. I spend a lot of time talking and listening to them, but that doesn’t mean I take my orders from them. Neither did Stan…in case anyone wants to throw out that old trope again.


  290. #290 Venomaniac says:


    SUCH a bad story…

  291. #291 DiabeticSpidey says:

    Gee, I hope I’m #270!! If I remember right, that’s where Spider-Man fights Firelord.

  292. #292 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    I claim Venom’s first appearance! Yes!

  293. #293 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    Oh, I’m such an idiot. Learn how to count, Two-Bit guy.

  294. #294 Venomaniac says:

    Re 289:

    The thing is though, the majority, if not at least half of the fans (or customers, whichever you would prefer) seem to be disagreeing with your protrayal and direction of the character. And sales appear to be lowering even more. From a busienss perspective, if I were in your case I would try to listen to the consumers and see what the main problems are. Certain things are individual, but many ideas are universal. Kraven’s Last Hunt and the Master Planner story, for example are universally acknowlegded as great, while the F.A.C.A.D.E. story and One More Day are universally acknowledged as bad. If the same ideas come up among a very large group of people, perhaps they are bitting on a core problem that needs to be examined. Taking order from the fans IS a bad idea, but looking at common pros and cons of your product from your customers and figuring out how you can improve… a very good thing indeed :)

  295. #295 Venomaniac says:

    Apparently the message didn’t send :(

    Re 289

    Re 289:

    The thing is though, the majority, if not at least half of the fans (or customers, whichever you would prefer) seem to be disagreeing with your protrayal and direction of the character. And sales appear to be lowering even more. From a business perspective, it seems listening to the consumers and seeing what the main problems are would be the best solution. Certain things are individual, but many ideas are universal. Kraven’s Last Hunt and the Master Planner story, for example are universally acknowlegded as great, while the F.A.C.A.D.E. story and One More Day are universally acknowledged as bad. If the same ideas come up among a very large group of people, perhaps they are bitting on a core problem that needs to be examined. Taking orders from the fans IS a bad idea, but looking at common pros and cons of your product from your customers and figuring out how you can improve… a very good thing indeed :)

  296. #296 drewr15 says:

    295 – Mad Dog anyone?

  297. #297 Berserkfury819 says:

    Hey, we’re passed the “live in together in a committed relationship” story! Michelinie/McFarlane run next!

  298. #298 Stephen Wacker says:

    Venomaniac…with all due respect your conclusions are flat out wrong and based on you looking for support for things you already believe.

    The world has changed from almost any perspective you look at it. Just becasue something did a different number 20-30 years ago doesn’t mean that will always be the number. The average reader has many more demands on your time and money…and that’s not because you’re mad at Dan Slott or Joe Quesada. And we have many more ways of selling comics that many here are anxious to ignore and discount (not to mention you have no idea what our overhead or budget is).

    I do hate DC being so close though, even in an odd month. We’ll have to do something about that.


  299. #299 Berserkfury819 says:

    Really Steve? I thought you had to revert to gimmicks like re-numbering, variants, polybags, and point one issues.

  300. #300 Fred says:

    “Sorry about futzing up George’s name, but I don’t think our relationship is as deep as he pretends it is around here.”

    Great, more baseless accusations. Waiting for more of that victim act you have when you can’t answer a simple question.

    “I have more respect for our readers than some of you seem to.”

    Coming from a person who has disrespects Kevin, who was being nice and respectful to you.

    “I spend a lot of time talking and listening to them, but that doesn’t mean I take my orders from them.”

    I don’t think anybody here gave you orders to do anything but ask you a simple question. Something you don’t have the decency to answer judging by the way you insult and attack people who give their opinion on what Dan did.

    The person who comes across badly here is you.

  301. #301 Berserkfury819 says:

    Venom is here!

  302. #302 Alex says:

    And so is Charge. Yeah…

  303. #303 Venomaniac says:

    re 298
    agree with you that the world has changed (in fact, I recently made a thread on the message board discussing it), and I have at least, a fair knowledge of the basic problems the industry as a whole faces. Now individual details of numbers aside, the issue (pun intended)that strikes me with the situation is this:
    Yes something did a different number 20-30 years ago, so the numbers might not be the same. But it seems there is a very large potential audience out there for the medium. To paraphrase a poster on the message board: “The movies make hundreds of millions of dollars, Mr. Quesada has been promoting the comics on popular shows like the Colbert Report,, the characters seem bigger than ever in pop culture… yet NO comic can hit over 100k?”
    Yes, some of that audience may just be the avarage joe, but I have trouble believing that out of the millions of people seeing the movies and tv shows, less than 100k would pick up a comic. There is definitely a much larger audience out there that needs to be listened to

  304. #304 Andrew says:

    Mr Wacker, I like you. You’re a good guy. But stop taking the bait, man. It’s a logic trap and internet-arguments never lead anywhere productive.

  305. #305 Andrew says:

    Also… bring back Ben Reilly. Please.

  306. #306 Flying Tiger says:

    Hey Andrew, we don’t need you to be mommy kthnx

    Also Wacker and Slott did the baiting over at CBR. This is the inevitable result of their own actions. Or in the sense most Westerners would use it, it’s KARMA.

    Humbug in Amazing Spider-Man 306… Ah Humbug. How appropriate.

    Also 306 was the Action #1 cover homage.

  307. #307 Flying Tiger says:

    306 also boasts “now on sale twice a month”… just like old times, eh Wacker?

  308. #308 Venomaniac says:

    Adding to #303, I’m also curious how listening to the overall feedback form the customers is EVER a bad idea (unless I am interpreting the words incorrectly). The only conclusion I have made that could theoretically be argued is the numbers, and I’m sure we both agree that the numbers are not as high as anyone would like.
    And if there are “many more” ways of selling comics, how come the numbers across the board for both companies are still not that great when compared to the last decade? ( the 2000s, where the technology has been relatively the same, so the amount of non-comic competition has roughly stayed constant)

  309. #309 Andrew says:

    Flying Tiger, you have a crappy attitude. The stuff you’re saying to Wacker isn’t even constructive criticism, it’s little insulting jibes that serve absolutely no purpose. That’s all I’m going to say about that. Go outside and fly a kite or something. A little joy in your life would probably do you good. :-/

  310. #310 John Carrion says:

    @306, 307 & MANY other posts………..

    You seem to be quite the attention whore yourself this thread, trying to give Steve Wacker a run? Remember, open hand, not closed fist. Now try talking to it, kthnx.

  311. #311 Enigma_2099 says:


    And in response to #289
    “I have more respect for our readers than some of you seem to. ”

    You sure fooled the hell out of me, buddy.

  312. #312 Web-Head says:

    Alright, fine. If nobody here wants a peanut, I’ll just eat them all myself.

  313. #313 herbiepopnecker says:

    Now. come on, let’s not fight amongst ourselves!
    Find some common ground, like….oh….what a
    wonderful and erudite poster I am.

    All right – who threw that?!?

  314. #314 Stuart Green says:

    Look, it’s no secret that I dislike the current direction of the comics, but I’d NEVER make fun of someone directly, saying something like “oh, he’s not a REAL fan of Spider-Man” or “he doesn’t care about the book/the fans/whatever”. (Oops. Does trying to make a point by listing examples mean I’ve just said it? If so, sorry, whoever I offended!)

    However, that said, I’d NEVER snap back and tell anyone to do anything to themselves or use strong language. Heck, in real life, I don’t even like cussing that much. When I do cuss, I always use a * in there somewhere (ex: “Oh, d*mn”) because I don’t feel right about cussing online. There are a lot of people who do it far better than I ever could anyway. 😉

    I am a bit shocked by Dan Slott’s comment, though. I have read some of the back-and-forth comments, and while I think Dan Slott is a big Spidey fan and hope he does well with the book, I don’t know what to make of having someone at Marvel tell someone something like that, especially since comments like that usually get people banned. I have had my own disagreements with Mr. Slott, some of which are private, but I certainly would never cuss at the guy. I like Mr. Slott, even though I might not like what he says sometimes.

    @ Mr. Wacker – I’m all for being at peace since it’s the holiday season, but then again, some of the writers/people at Marvel are just as bad at times in their responses as the upset fans. Do I like what’s going on in the Spider-Man comics right now? No. Do I agree with the current direction of the Spider-Man comics? No. Does that mean I’m going to make fun of the guys at Marvel and say they’re not fans? Heck no! It’s common knowledge I’m still disappointed the Spider-Marriage has been retconned, but that doesn’t mean I want the books to fail or have any ill feelings to Marvel for it. I think we all, myself included, need to watch what we say more, be more respectful and should speak to others like we’d like to be spoken to. I’m all for having a nice, polite, constructive talk with you about Spider-Man. PM me some time for fun and we’ll chat about Spidey.

    I also agree, internet-arguments never lead anywhere productive. There are also far too many arguments already, on ANY message board.

    That’s all for now on my part. I hope that everyone here, whether you’re fans of the current Spidey books or not, has a good day/night.

    As a wise man once said (and still does), “‘Nuff said!”

  315. #315 Javi Trujillo says:

    315 Hydroman and McFarlane art! And when did anyone say Stan took orders from fans? when was that ever a trope? I think Stan LISTENED to fans and did not get rude to those who didn’t like an issue. Also, I don’t see any where that George pretends to have a deep relationship with Mr. Wacker.

  316. #316 farmernudie says:

    Wow..a lot of back and forth here. Holy rebuttals Batman!! All i can say is, it isn’t about who started what or what someone’s “opinion” is. Opinions are just that, all over the internet!….but all i know is…i would be fired for talking to customers, past customers, potential customers, whathaveyou, the way Slott did. If my friend at work said that, or someone i don’t like at work said that, to a customer, i would say it was wrong, whether i understood their customer sob story or not, as to WHY they said it. It’s all just rationalization. Doesn’t matter. Telling a customer or potential customer to “GO F YOURSELF” is flat out wrong, no matter who said or how i feel about them. My boss wouldn’t care if they were sick when they said, healthy, eating ice cream, or skipping with a snack of Fritos. All besides the point. My parents even raised me to respect others and be professional at work. Our agency pays CLOSE attention to our facebooks and everything. We represent our employer, period. It doesn’t matter if we are FT, PT, a sub, etc. I’ve liked Dan’s work for eons, most of it, yet, it is clear he stepped over a line, that was NOT professional. Calling a spade a spade is not hard. Nor should it reflect your opinion of their work or how they may “typically” be. I’ve seen lots of great employees make BIG mistakes, and some small time employees make bone-headed decisions also. The thing is, we are all accountable, for our CHOICES…because that is what they all are. I tell those i supervise that if they make a mistake, man-up to it at least, and be honorable about it. People make mistakes. It’s worse to make one, and then rationalize it and not man-up to it and take responsibility for it, imo. Nite all.

  317. #317 Javi Trujillo says:

  318. #318 Javi Trujillo says:

    now he’s doing “your mom” jokes and others are joining in.

  319. #319 Venomaniac says:

    Do we know if that is Mr. slott or not?

  320. #320 Venomaniac says:

    Never mind…
    He actually said he was kidding with a smiley face at the end.It wasn’t intended as an insult. So it was just another post he thought would be funny (I respectfully disagree, but to each their own).

  321. #321 Andrew says:

    What’s wrong with “your mom” jokes? :-(

  322. #322 Venomaniac says:

    @Andrew- Nothing is necessarily wrong with them as jokes, I just feel it isn’t professional for Slott to say that. Compared to “I’m sorry you’re not a fan of my work. Hopefully the next issue of Amazing Spider-Man will impress you though!”, the your mom joke just seems a bit snarky, which I don’t think is the best way to respond in that type of situation.

  323. #323 Andrew says:

    Javi has taken it upon himself to be the internet-police and will enforce the utmost vigilance in stopping ANY comic-writing professionals from having fun anywhere on the internet. He will stalk everywhere they post and if he sees a “your momma” joke somewhere…. oh, you better believe people will hear about it on the crawlspace. Believe that!

  324. #324 coco chanel's wig says:

    Keep the cosmic trigger happy Danny Boy!! lol

  325. #325 Andrew says:

    Venomaniac, it seems like it’s all in good fun and no one is crying about being offended (except here) this time. Can we draw some line at faux-outrage?

  326. #326 herbiepopnecker says:

    Are there any cashews left?

  327. #327 Venomaniac says:

    I’m personally not offended, I just don’t think it’s the proper way one should act in that setting.

  328. #328 coco chanel's wig says:

    Oh the delicate sensibilities of fans, err clients. All in good fun, no harm. I’m sure even lejayjay has scraped himself off the pavement by now and is laughing. Or at the very least biting his tongue lol.

  329. #329 Andrew says:

    Cosmic Spidey is here.

  330. #330 George Berryman says:

    “Sorry about futzing up George’s name, but I don’t think our relationship is as deep as he pretends it is around here.”

    There isn’t a relationship and I’ve never claimed such. But then you know that already. I’d ask you for an example of how I’ve claimed you and I have some deep relationship but you’ll just use more snark as a dodge and not answer anything.

    Regardless, you have managed in this thread to deflect a lot of the heat off Dan’s unprofessional behavior and shift the focus over to your own.

  331. #331 Stephen Wacker says:

    George, you must put a stop to this!! Please take this more seriously!!!

    I mean what if we get away with whatever it is you think we’re doing?!?!


  332. #332 Venomaniac says:

    So I just came from a function where i was chatting with two teenagers about the Spider-Man movie. Next to me an 11-year old was playing spider-Man web of shadows while two young children were playing with toys and playing spider-man vs. captain underpants. So the character ahas HUGE potnetial, that I don’t see translated itno sales as well as it can be.

    And I do have a serious question for Mr. Wacker:
    What is the main demographic you are trying to appeal to when Amazing Spider-Man is put out?

  333. #333 stillanerd says:

    Wow, Brad, this many responses has to be an all-time record! (issue 332–and Venom’s Back!).

    But seriously, just to add to the conversation, whenever someone posts online, especially a public forum, it is reflects who they are. And when someone who works for a company posts online, it not only reflects who they are, but it also reflects the company they work for. How is that not common sense?

  334. #334 John Carrion says:


    We all know the character is huge, entrenched in pop culture, etc. The movies will once again prove that. But I think you know why sales are down on this title……

  335. #335 SPURSGUY says:

    Given the amount of snarky comments from both fans and creators it’s not a huge surprise something like this has happened. That being said I can understand Dan Slott
    wanting to defend himself and bite back at the poster for making on the face of it a personal attack, but telling him to go f himself most definitely wasn’t the best thing to say.

  336. #336 herbiepopnecker says:

    “…you’ll just use more snark as a dodge and not answer anything.

    Regardless, you have managed in this thread to deflect a lot of the heat off Dan’s unprofessional behavior and shift the focus over to your own.”

    –You were saying…?!?!
    Talk about bang on.

    Read your second sentence.
    Apply liberally to self.

    AND I still wanna know: are there any cashews left?

  337. #337 Enigma_2099 says:

    Now he’s trolling George too?!?!?

  338. #338 Venomaniac says:

    It is common sense.
    I just think that Mr. Wacker and Mr. Slott do not believe their behavior is being detirmental to Marvel’s image.

    Although I do want to adress Mr. Wacker via 331:
    I find it sad that some people, myself included, have been trying to have a friendly intelligent debate about something we are passionate about, and we get is harsh sarcasm back instead.
    We all want the industry to suceed, and we have dfferent points of view and opinions on the situation. That being said, let’s work together and see what we can do to fix the situation. And that has to start with respect on both sides. The harsh fans need to stop with the personal insults, and the pros need to stop firing back and saying things like “Go f–k yourself”

  339. #339 Venomaniac says:

    NOTE: I was replying to 333
    And John carrion:
    I was talking more about the overall issues of the industry as a whole. Though those problems are certainly prevalent in ASM

  340. #340 herbiepopnecker says:

    So OP apologizes because Dan completely misread his post
    and completely missed the point…

    Still think no one should ever post “that suggestion” to any one. Ever.

    So, overall, I’d say Dan has quite the mess of ostrich-sized egg on his face.
    Look before you leap – OR post. Or leap a post.

    Pass the cashews and pour me a Barq’s.

  341. #341 CrazyChris says:

    I think Stephen Wacker don’t care what people on this board think of them because they don’t believe they are loosing a significant amount of sales, at least not significant enough to impact their livelihoods. I happen to know that my word-of-mouth has affected the buying habits of other people not otherwise interested in comic, and that those people have went on to pass the words to their friends, so I honestly believe that each person on a message board can have an exponential impact on sales beyond his or her personal buying. That’s why if I were an editor of a publication (and I am, of a legal journal), I would not get into online sparring matches with any potential buyers, regardless of how insignificant a subset they seemed.

  342. #342 CrazyChris says:

    *Stephen Wacker and Dan Slott don’t care

  343. #343 Enigma_2099 says:

    … are those cashews? I LOVE cashews!!!!

  344. #344 herbiepopnecker says:

    Shall I pour you a Barq’s?
    Cubes or crushed?

  345. #345 Stephen Wacker says:

    Now now…Of course I care about you. I’m here reading this tripe (though some of you mix in some good jibes).

    However I don’t think good stories come out of trying to set your clock by whatever a group of mostly anonymous people will pretend to be up in arms about on any given day. For as much as many of you are clutching your handbags in offense, my suspicion is that if this epithet were aimed the other way, most of you’d have no problem….since you know Spider-Man is ruined forever(!!!) and all that.


  346. #346 BDog says:

    So… how did you guys like The Walking Dead finale? Kirkman is a genius comic book writer. Get him on ASM!

  347. #347 Andrew says:

    Screw rootbeer. I need a scotch after going through all these comments… Let’s do it Don Draper style.

  348. #348 Andrew says:


    Yeah, Wacker, that’s all well and good, but what about Ben Reilly coming back? :-/

  349. #349 Stephen Wacker says:

    Slott you, Ben Reilly!

  350. #350 Andrew says:


    Can I at least get a Hypno-Hustler?

  351. #351 herbiepopnecker says:


    (Said in my best Homer Simpson voice, which also happens to be my worst).

  352. #352 Chris says:

    While it’s a shame that Slott said that to a fan (which there’s no way you can possibly defend that, regardless of how offended he felt) it’s even worse that Wacker came here and stirred the pot further with his usual snark. I’ve seen nothing from him but pushing and prodding conflict with completely classless comments aimed at people who don’t agree with him or the books direction. It’s not funny or clever, it’s just childish.
    And this is coming from someone who generally enjoys ASM and likes the direction the books are headed in, so I can’t be told I’m saying this ‘just cause I have a bias’ or something. I want this team to succeed, I really do.
    But whatever, cue Wacker’s signature remarks.

  353. #353 Stephen Wacker says:

    I am Spider-man to your Doctor Octopus.

  354. #354 Webswinger3000 says:

    Interesting and entertaining read here, fellas.
    By now, I’m sure most of you know and realize that Stephen is simply trolling you all. He’s enjoying this and having himself a good chuckle at how seriously you’re all taking the matter. Immaturity at it’s best. So it is pretty futile to ask him any serious questions, as he’ll simply answer them in his usual way, and that is not getting you anywhere. Bottom line, the man is not professional enough and does not want to deal with fans maturely. It’s quite sad, but true. Oh, and if I know his type as well as I think I do, then he’ll take the bait right now as well 😉
    As for the Dan Slott issue, I can understand him being mad, but saying the F word, yes it was over the line. But I doubt he cares. Stephen certainly doesn’t. You wonder if even Quesada cares. It’d be really interesting to get him on here next and seeing what he has to say. Hey Stephen, there’s a good idea. Anywho, Brad posted this to cause traffic for his site, and he sure did. That was a smart business move on his part. And I think it’s given most of us and Stephen a lot to talk about here for the past two days. At least it livens things up for a bit. So for that, we should thank the man. Ah well, I’m done now, I just wanted to say something here since everyone else was :p

  355. #355 AmFan15 says:

    @345 – Sorry to make you read through all this “tripe”, Mr. Wacker…but turnabout is fair play. After all, judging by the reviews I’ve read from SEVERAL different sources, that’s how the general perception of ASM has been: Tripe.

  356. #356 herbiepopnecker says:


    They’re SATCHELS, dang it!!

  357. #357 CrazyChris says:

    @Wacker — What I said is I don’t think you care what the people on this board think of you. It’s obvious that you don’t. And I don’t think you should write your stories based on what fans say they want. I just think it would make more sense if you tried to cultivate good will instead of taking such an adversarial stance. For example, it would have made more sense if Dan Slott said “Actually, this isn’t just a paycheck to me. In fact, I turned down a higher-paying job to stay on Spider-Man and I’m working long hours while I’m sick. I can assure you that I love Spider-Man every bit as much as anyone on this board!” That would have gotten his point across and made it look like we’re all part of the same club. Instead, he made a comment that, right or wrong, had the effect of poorly representing Marvel (and I doubt anyone keeps track of who is a freelancer and who is on a contract, they will be perceived to represent the company either way).

  358. #358 BDog says:

    “I am Spider-man to your Doctor Octopus”

    I am Skeets to your Booster Gold

    Wait that sounds weird…

  359. #359 Andrew says:

    I am Snooki to your The Situation.

  360. #360 ChaosInc says:

    @ 353 So does that make Slott Human Torch? 😉

  361. #361 herbiepopnecker says:

    Also @Wacker:

    You’re even annoying fans/customers who actually *support* you…
    T’aint good.

    Who took the last cashew?

  362. #362 BDog says:

    “Who took the last cashew?”

    It was me it’s my weakness. Sorry :(

  363. #363 Stephen Wacker says:

    CrazyChris and others…try not reading my (or any) posts in the angry tone you are projecting onto it. That will help everything go down better in life.

    I’ve actually given some pretty good insight about the business in this thread, though you may have missed it amidst other people’s anger vomit.

  364. #364 Javi Trujillo says:

    323 Andrew-I was merely pointing out something else relevant to this discussion. My friends and I make your mom jokes at each other’s expense all the time. I think it’s ridiculous to accuse me of policing the internet because I pointed this out to others as this adds to the debate on the line of communication between “professional/creator” and “fan/reader/customer”. what crosses the line? when is it all in good fun? And stop trying to kiss up to Mr. Wacker, he said he wasn’t bringing back Ben Reilly.

  365. #365 Javi Trujillo says:

    it seems more a case of Flash Thompson to our Peter Parker

  366. #366 Stephen Wacker says:

    Peter Parker wouldn’t have put this post up in the in the first place.

  367. #367 Andrew says:

    Javi, I only kiss up to my girlfriend when she’s angry at me. And occasionally to my boss. For the record I am pretty indifferent about this whole thing. Mostly because I have a thick skin and don’t get offended by every f-bomb I see on the internet. This thread is more entertaining than 90% of the current comics out there, which is why I’ve enjoyed it so thoroughly. I think Wacker’s shooting himself in the foot a bit by getting so involved in this thread, but do I personally care what he says or does? No, believe me I’ve got MUCH bigger concerns. I just think some of the hysterical rhetoric I’ve seen from people attacking him here (such as Flying Tiger) goes far beyond the original sin of anything said by Slott or even the guy insulting Slott.

    PS: There’s still a chance he could bring back Ben Reilly. :-(

  368. #368 CrazyChris says:

    Steve Wacker, I actually don’t read an angry tone into your posts. I think you’re playing a game and amusing yourself, and you don’t care enough about what posters here think about you to really get angry about this. Your neverending jibes, though, do have the effect of making you appear adversarial to the people posting here.

    I did read an angry tone into Slott’s “go. fuck. yourself.” comment, though. I think that’s justified. There’s something about putting a period after every word that makes it sound like one really means what one is typing. I think Slott really hoped that person would go and fuck himself.

  369. #369 herbiepopnecker says:


    At least I got to lick the salt off first…

  370. #370 Andrew says:

    If Peter Parker had the internet who knows what weird stuff he would have put up.

  371. #371 Fred says:

    “CrazyChris and others…try not reading my (or any) posts in the angry tone you are projecting onto it.”

    No one is projecting anything, you’re making yourself look bad all on your own.

  372. #372 Stephen Wacker says:

    CrazyChriss–I’ve been on the podcast, plugged the blog and and have helped make this thread more fun than sitting through the usual suspects whinging about the sun coming up. That’s pretty great and supportive of me actually.

    People on this site loudly supported a guy who sent me ripped up comics, so I’m not too worried about appearing too “adversarial”. The die was already cast and that’s fine.

    This place (and most boards if I’m being honest) is like a less-benevolent Onion when it comes to comic news and insight.

    I like you though.

  373. #373 Stephen Wacker says:

    Fred has spoken!

  374. #374 Andrew says:

    Peter would whine on his facebook about his cheapskate Uncle giving him a friggin’ microscope for his birthday.

  375. #375 herbiepopnecker says:


    Should Slott have made “The Suggestion”?

    I say no one ever should.
    Yes, I know they WILL…!!

    “The suggestion” made by a writing pro – talk
    about a “way with words”….

  376. #376 George Berryman says:

    Ripped up comics? Or pages removed, folded neatly and returned as proof of a printing error?

  377. #377 Bertone says:


    Cardiac, Styx and Stone. Still we have 400 to look forward to.

  378. #378 Venomaniac says:

    Re 363:
    Mr. Wacker, I’m a little confused about what informative comments about the business you made. You talked about how Slott was freelance, how they were some as-of-yet-unexplained extra method of sales used, and how listening to message board poster is not (in your opinion) the best way for stories. All of which shed light on your mindset towards the situation and how you view your editorial duties, but not the little details of the business as a whole or more about how the overall business operates (unless I misinterpreted your statement again)

  379. #379 Heartburn says:

    Carnage ,Doppleganger, Demogoblin… Maximum Carnage keeps on rolling!

  380. #380 Jack Brooks says:

    This is where the “Just Ignore Him” advice kicks in.

  381. #381 Donovan Grant says:

    Mr. Wacker, at no point in this abomination have I seen you make a specific stance concerning your opinion towards Dan Slotts behavior. Are you for or against what he did, and why?

    I assume you don’t really care since you’ve played Candyland with the Crawlspace for the past 36 hours, but for the sake of a lil’ ole fanboy’s heart, if you could state your opinion, people would very much appreciate it.

  382. #382 George Berryman says:

    Good question, Don. Impending sarcastic dodge from Wacker in 3… 2… 1…

  383. #383 Javi Trujillo says:

    Andrew, I will join your crusade if it means Ben Reilly returning in his post Scarlet Spider Amazing Spider-Man outfit! 382 Spidey, the Hulk, and Mark Bagley goodness!

  384. #384 Javi Trujillo says:

    ugh. now we are in the jury story…

  385. #385 Stephen Wacker says:

    Donovan, I’m fine with the predictably angry people here being disappointed that I won’t jump for their ” do you still hit your wife” questions.

    Mr. Berryman on the other hand just likes to peacock for the rest of ya…does he speak for everyone? I assume so since no one has said otherwise…which seems to be the litmus test here.

  386. #386 Donovan Grant says:

    So you won’t give an honest answer because…that’s just what they’re expecting?

  387. #387 Stephen Wacker says:

    Your McCarthy is showing!

  388. #388 AmFan15 says:

    @345 – “However I don’t think good stories come out of trying to set your clock by whatever a group of mostly anonymous people will pretend to be up in arms about on any given day.”

    You’re absolutely right, Mr. Wacker…good stories DON’T come out of hanging out at message boards, worrying about what others think of your product. They come from hard work, creative thinking, and cooperating with associates in the field.

    Which begs the question AGAIN: Why are you and Mr. Slott spending so much of your time bickering with us, who are quite OBVIOUSLY “not real fans”, and not putting your all into creating great stories?
    If you did so, I guarantee you wouldn’t have HALF as many complaints coming from the boards in the first place!

  389. #389 George Berryman says:

    Told you Don!

    And Crawl Spacers can and do routinely disagree with me. The difference between you and them is that they’re willing to say they do or don’t agree with me or comments I’ve made, whereas you’re unwilling to answer Don’s simple question regarding Dan’s behavior.

    Also – when they disagree with me I certainly don’t tell them to go f-ck themselves. I’ll leave that to the Mouse House of Ideas.

  390. #390 Bertone says:

    Hey Steve while I have ya..quick question..?

    Harry was with Mia while Peter kissed Carlie in ASM 647…but earlier in the book during the first story it showed Harry leaving the party before the Peter/Carlie kiss. So my question…who was impersonating Harry?

  391. #391 herbiepopnecker says:

    I find myself losing respect ever so steadily for Wacker.
    But then: “Not to reply is to reply”, so….

    Berryman, however, I feel more and more is veryman.

  392. #392 Stephen Wacker says:

    Not sure who you are quoting. Who said you weren’t real fans? You just got the responsibility quote wrong is all. You;re feeling upset about POVs that you’re making up. No one you hate on Spidey is as evil as you think.

    Unfortunately you don’t get to decide how I spend my time. Maybe one day.

  393. #393 herbiepopnecker says:


    Your Edgar Bergen is showing!
    And most of your Mortimer Snerd…

  394. #394 Fred says:

    “Unfortunately you don’t get to decide how I spend my time.”

    Judging by the amount of time you spend here making yourself and Marvel look bad, i don’t think anybody really cares what you do with your time.

  395. #395 Bertone says:

    We’re in the CLONE SAGA folks!

  396. #396 Stephen Wacker says:

    Mr. Berryman, no one’s as smart as you think you are, but you are the true hero of your own story. Good for you for getting as far as you have in life. Be well.

    Bertone, we screwed that up after making a late change in the story. I realized it too late though. Sorry if it threw ya. I was always thrown by the missing Skrull in FF #2, so I empathize. It’s why I hate looking through printed books. They all have mistakes somewhere.

    And finally, If I lose “herbiepopnecker”, I lose America!

  397. #397 Stephen Wacker says:

    Fred, I thought you guys were nice and sweet and all of us were mean?

    At the very least, you’ll be invited to join one of the clubs here for speaking out against my evil ineptitude.

  398. #398 Bertone says:


    Maybe the missing Skrull is Harry from 647? His purpose was to mate with Mia for a human/Skrull hybrid baby? Sell it as a mini-series?

  399. #399 Stephen Wacker says:

    You guys should do a podcast where you read these 400 responses like a radio play.

  400. #400 Stephen Wacker says:

    HA! Bertone, you are brilliant!! Let’s form a separate club here.

  401. #401 Venomaniac says:

    Still sad my audience question wasn’t answered… it was something I am genuinely curious about

  402. #402 Andrew says:

    Wacker just answer one simple question… why do you hate America so much?


  403. #403 Stephen Wacker says:

    By the way, to whoever is in charge…

    Don’t NOT do the radio play thing just because it’s me suggesting it. Pretend it was Berryman who said it.

  404. #404 Bertone says:

    I’ll do it if you read for the part of yourself Wacker.

    While I have your attention, will Bugle Girl be addressed at all in Slott’s run or is she redundant now because the Daily Bugle is back?

  405. #405 herbiepopnecker says:

    You’ve lost America!!
    “herbiepopnecker” is a CANUCK!

    S’all right, just check the lost-and-found.

  406. #406 Jack Bauer says:

    #400 woohoo!

    I wonder if this is gonna get to 500….

  407. #407 Jack Bauer says:

    Aw dang…

  408. #408 Stephen Wacker says:

    Okay…so there is ONE annoying thing about Canada.

    Anyway, Back to Bertone…

    No huge plans for BugleGirl as that’s more of a background thing. Not forgotten though. Dan just had a great idea for a Betty story last night.

    And i will not read my part as my rate is Equity scale. George Berryman can read my part (assuming he can read!!)


  409. #409 Venomaniac says:

    Re: 403
    I’m cool with the radio play if you agree to participate as well

  410. #410 herbiepopnecker says:

    One annoying thing about Canada…?
    Hey, it’s not like we can HELP it that we’re so dang cool…

    The remarks about verym…er, berryman are getting
    to be just a bit much.

  411. #411 AmFan15 says:

    @392 – “Not sure who you are quoting. Who said you weren’t real fans?”
    I was quoting you, actually…WAAAY back in comment #258, you said:

    “@AmFan 15

    You got the responsibility quote wrong. You aren’t really a fan, are you?


    Of course, you’re pretty good at forgetting little things like history and continuity, so I completely understand…It’s not like it’s your job to keep up with these things!

  412. #412 Enigma_2099 says:

    BDog took the last cashew!?!?!?

    … I’m not speaking to him for a week.

  413. #413 Stephen Wacker says:

    But the shots at Dan and me are okay?

  414. #414 Venomaniac says:

    And Mr. Wacker- I AM curious… do you think there is a certain line a professional should not cross when dealing with the fanbase? and if so, what is it?

  415. #415 Stephen Wacker says:

    AmFan…you could maybe lighten up a bit. I was gently teasing you for getting the quote wrong (which most people do). I’m sure you love Spidey considering you are the comic he debuted in.

  416. #416 Bertone says:

    By the time we get to the 500’s there will be enough material for an interview…


    I noticed in AMERICAN SON that Harry and Norah went public with Norman being the father of Gabrial Stacy. Since they used his last name, does this mean Gwen was outed to the public as the mother as well?

  417. #417 Jack Bauer says:

    Where are people taking pot shots at you, Steve?

  418. #418 Venomaniac says:

    re 413:
    I feel that the fans have been tryijng to debate an issue in a serious manner, and the more saracstic attitude you and Mr. Slott take turn people off and can get them a little annoyed after a while. I Do see your side of it, but i feel that the saracasm is not the best way to handle the situation. Are both sides throwing unneccesary insults? YES. should BOTh sides stop? Yes. We need to get back to the idea of treating the creators with respect and only critiquing the work. AHowever, the creators have to honor that by respecting the fanbase as well

  419. #419 Stephen Wacker says:

    The line is arbitrary and changes from person to person. I’ll know where it is for me when I see it. There is no universal answer.

    For example, I wouldn’t say what Slott did to a guy on a message board (I tend to not get so worked up about any of this as much as the 300 people above here do)…but that doesn’t mean I think it was wrong.

    My issue is more that I hate any writer typing stuff that isn’t for money.

  420. #420 Mark says:

    @345: “my suspicion is that if this epithet were aimed the other way, most of you’d have no problem…”

    My suspicion is that most of you/us/whatever would think that the guy was way out of line, and ignored him as a ranter and an idiot. In case you haven’t noticed, most of us are agreeing with Slott’s outrage, just not the way he handled it.

    Personally, I would have mentioned being mad enough to want to post G-F-Y, and then list the reasons for being that angry (hard work despite being ill, other job opportunities, etc.). That is the easy and hypothetical way of saying it, without actually saying it. Or better yet, realize that the original poster was not important enough to get upset about (unless he was an editor, important critic, or a close friend).

  421. #421 Spider-Dad says:

    Let’s see, what has not been said so far? We have the great Twain quote about wrestling with pigs. Good. We have some good ol’ fashioned what is good for the goose is good for the gander. OK. We have questions about professionalism. Got it. What’s left? I know…

    If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

    @ Steve: Staying in NY getting to ya? You sound like a Cubs fan defending something that is not really worth defending. BTW: Do you like the Berkman pickup for LF? Weird, not sure if I do. Go Cardinals!

    ASM #416…Oh, wait, HEROES FAREWELL, how ironic…

  422. #422 Spider-Dad says:

    Nutz, it was 421, which is really the Dragonfly issue…

  423. #423 Stephen Wacker says:

    Jack…I suspect there’s nothing you would acknowledge as such since we’re so bad and anti-fans, so don’t worry about it.

    Venom-You can handle things the way you see fit, but I have a hard time taking advice from someone named Venomaniac. I don’t know anything about you, so I’m probably more apt to follow my instincts. Nothing is as bad as you think.

    Bertone – To part of the world it’s a not so uncommon name. To those that would care its possibly another evil Norman Osborn ploy. When we get back tot his story there will probably be more to tell.

  424. #424 AmFan15 says:

    I wonder if by comment #545, Mephisto will come in and offer to wipe away all the previous posts, and make everyone forget that Mr. Slott ever even said the “F” word?

    Sure, it’ll wipe out all of the past 24 hours of continuity…But who needs it? Continuity’s overrated anyway, right?

  425. #425 Venomaniac says:

    “My issue is more that I hate any writer typing stuff that isn’t for money”
    Could you clarify what this means? Is this a writer putting their work out for free when they have the opporutnity to get paid instead? because that wouldn’t make sense.

  426. #426 Stephen Wacker says:

    Mark–it sounds like we have different suspicions.

  427. #427 Bertone says:


    First we need to renumber until 500.

    @Steve…when you said “When we get back tot his story there will probably be more to tell.”….does this mean there are more Stacy twin stories coming?

  428. #428 Jack Bauer says:

    Mr. Wacker, where did I call you a anti-fan?

  429. #429 Stephen Wacker says:

    I mean I want my writers only typing comics for me.

    And just because you seem very literal…I don’t really enforce this. It’s just my wish. You never say Olivier running around doing Henry V for free!

  430. #430 Venomaniac says:

    “Nothing is as bad as you think’ are you saying that as a general philosophy, or in reagrds ton this specific comic situation?

    And I’m not sure what my name has to do with anything lol. advice can be taken from any source if it makes good points and is a well thought out argument imo

  431. #431 herbiepopnecker says:

    Depends on the caliber…

    Disagreement, civilly stated, is fine.
    But honestly, like it or not, *you* should set
    higher standards for yourself as a representative
    of marvel – like it or not.

    Nor should Dan be making cracks about
    doing someone’s mom….ugh, utter lack of class.

    Certainly, I hope I haven’t come too close to
    any lines in my posts; I DO keep in mind that
    I’m talking to *real* people with *real* feelings…

    Come on, man – you ARE better than this.

  432. #432 Venomaniac says:

    But Olivier doing henry v for free would be quite nice! (Actually Pacino doing Merchant for free would be even better…but i digress)

  433. #433 joe says:

    After Civil War #2 and all the stuff that was going on in Spider-man at the time I seriously thought they just didn’t care. That didn’t even make good fan fiction in my opinoin. If you do 5 different gimmicks straight almost month by month I think it was and you do the biggest thing ever even though all the EIC seemed to want is Peter single. I honestly thought they just didnt’ care and it ruined the book. Because what can you do now? Dan Slott comes around and I think he cares but he can’t do anything adn this is his attitude and I think that’s what he is trying to make Peter parker. I don’t think it’s anyworse than idiot Peter betraying his friends and altering the universe for his gain.

  434. #434 Stephen Wacker says:

    Good advice can come from anywhere, but when there’s opposing views, I probably won’t follow the stranger who goes by a code name that suggests he or she is a maniac.

    Maybe consider a change to VenomGenius?

  435. #435 Venomaniac says:

    Well i Do have a lot of knowledge of the character…

  436. #436 Venomaniac says:

    A strong knowledge of the character *

  437. #437 Stephen Wacker says:

    Herb – you are imagining a bunch of things that aren’t happening –and that i’m not doing– to make this larger point you have about how you think I should behave. I know it gets you some responses elsewhere on the message board, but part of living a zen life is realizing you can’t control everyone. I don’t know you and don’t feel beholden to you and your arbitrary beliefs on when i should respond to things or how I should spend my time. I have me for that and I have a better track record than you with my life.

    Considering my world isn’t ending, is it possible you’re wrong?


  438. #438 dta6994 says:

    Just wanted to get in on the record number of posts. Lets get to 500.

  439. #439 herbiepopnecker says:

    The leader of CANADA sang and played keyboards
    and paid tribute to John Lennon at his Party’s Christmas bash!!

    Let’s see Obama do that!!

    Forget losing America, find Canada!! Boo yah!

  440. #440 Jack Bauer says:

    If you have a better track record, Steve, why do you aviod the issue?

  441. #441 Stan Lee says:

    Greetings my brave Brigadiers! Just a friendly reminder from your beloved Generalissimo to pick up Starborn #1!!!!

    I would also be remiss if I didn’t mention the unveiling of my star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame on January 4, 2011. And even luckier for me, the fourth has always been my favorite day in January!!


  442. #442 Stephen Wacker says:

    You win, Jack Bauer…this time!

    doot DOOT doot DOOT

  443. #443 Venomaniac says:

    …my day has just been made

  444. #444 Venomaniac says:

    Stan…great to have you with us! Congrats on the star!

  445. #445 Bertone says:


    Ironic that that’s the last pre-reboot issue….unless somebody beats me to the punch I’m volume 2 number 1…

    IP check to see if that’s the real Stan? I’m hesistant.

  446. #446 Venomaniac says:

    @Betrone…the date for the event is right…and it SOUNDS like him…

  447. #447 BD says:

    Unless Stan Lee moved to Canada, ignore that previous post. However, that was a pretty good impression.

  448. #448 Bertone says:

    LOL fail

    Also fail that we’re in the reboot era.

  449. #449 Spider-Dad says:

    @ Bertone…sure sounds like Stan.

    @ Steve: Hey fellow Cardinal fan. No answer to post #421?

    Aren’t we supposed to be renumbered by now?

  450. #450 BD says:

    447, what in the world has happened? This is nuts!!!!!!!!!

    Wacker- What flavor?

  451. #451 Venomaniac says:

    Well..I’ve been fooled by an impersonator. Darn…

  452. #452 Javi Trujillo says:

    Perhaps everyone should just do a Uwe Boll and just duke it out in the ring! Old-timey style with handlebar mustaches! All proceeds to charity!

  453. #453 GregXB says:

    Is Norman Osborn back yet? I think he is.

    Wait, we’re in the Mackie Reboot now, aren’t we?

  454. #454 Gerard Delatour II says:

    @Bertone: Unless Stan Lee moved to the British Columbia province of Canada without telling anybody, I’m going to say no on that one.

    EDIT: Ninja’d by Brad. I really need a faster connection. 😛

  455. #455 Andrew says:

    Dammit. Thanks guys, we’re now in the middle of the terrible Howard Mackie/John Byrne relaunch.

    Hey Wacker, even you can admit that was a pretty bad stretch, right? I mean, Mattie Franklin, Doctor Octopus without pants, Chapter One and Tricorp, amirite???

  456. #456 Stephen Wacker says:

    Since several of you are apparently asking for me to leave over on your board, I’ll take off again before the authorities have to step in. Nice to stop by, though. Good luck with the joint.

    And for the love of mike, don’t give into easy cynicism. It’s the cheapest, most facile emotion you can muster. If you’re so mad at comics, then go out and make some good ones.

    (Brad, I like plain vanilla. Quick before it melts! Address is in the book! Seriously though, this was worth a gift certificate at least.)

    (George, you haven’t mentioned Disney in a couple hours. Are you okay?)

    (Andrew, I did stop reading during that run, but it was mostly because Macchio told me to go F myself. And as a fan…I did what i was told.)


  457. #457 Flying Tiger says:

    Amazing Spider-Man 450 – horrible.

    Also oh noes I been menshunned by internets police! Andrew iz aftah me! oh noes. l a m e

    Wacker’s trolling hard whilst still playing the victim saint for the Cyborg Beatdown Revolution. Slott meanwhile is on Twitter being derivative.

    And on to Issue 666- which will be the issue where it’s Mephisto’s Daughter and Spider-Girl versus Mephisto for the soul of Aunt May! Or something.

  458. #458 Flying Tiger says:

    Tricorp. As just reused by Wacker in Big (ironic) Time…

  459. #459 herbiepopnecker says:

    Wacker….was that a zen reply?
    Where/how does “world ending” come into the discussion?

    Why would I think I can control people thousands
    of miles away (and I don’t) when I can barely
    (and usually not) control my CATS? But they’re SO darn cute…

    Still…thank you for muddifying the fuzzification.

  460. #460 Bertone says:

    Dang we’re in the MJ IS DEAD era.

  461. #461 herbiepopnecker says:

    Don’t look at me, I’m waaaaay over in Ontario!

  462. #462 AmFan15 says:

    Brad, since we’ve heard from a Stan Lee impersonator, can you confirm that this is the REAL Stephen Wacker? Or just some troll starting trouble for both us AND Marvel?

    Because at this point, I’m actually hoping for the latter!
    It would explain a LOT!

  463. #463 Jack Bauer says:

    Don’t you know? I’m the real Jack Bauer!

  464. #464 Andrew says:

    457 said: “Also oh noes I been menshunned by internets police! Andrew iz aftah me! oh noes. l a m e”

    Um… Flying Tiger are you okay? Did you have a seizure while you were typing? Let us know that you’re not in need of any immediate medical assistance, please.

  465. #465 BD says:

    AMFam15-Yes, Wacker pissed in a cup.He’s the real deal. His IP is from NYC .

    Wacker-Two Bit told you to leave, he got a warning. NO one is telling you to leave. I think they’re just pissed you aren’t saying more harsh things about Slott’s quote.

  466. #466 George Berryman says:

    @Flying Tiger – “Wacker’s trolling hard whilst still playing the victim saint for the Cyborg Beatdown Revolution. Slott meanwhile is on Twitter being derivative.”

    There was some trolling but mostly it was Wacker laying all his cards out on the table while trying to talk about anything other than the horrible hand he just had to fold on. I’ll regret this later but in his defense there wasn’t much he could really say here out in the open regarding his writer’s attitude. They’re way too early into the next failed ASM relaunch for him to be disagreeing with Slott’s actions publicly.

  467. #467 Bertone says:

    If Wacker told us to eff off we’d get another 500 comments.

    Wacker I give you permission to tell me to eff off. Ask anyone, I have it coming.

  468. #468 Wheatcakes says:

    Wait, SlashDot told someone to go eff themselves?

    Oh oh wait, DanSlott. Sorry.

    Meh, it seemed funnier in my head. As you were.

    Ish 466- Double sized!

  469. #469 Andrew says:

    What is the previous highest number of comments any topic has received before this one? Anyone? Bueller?

  470. #470 Bertone says:



  471. #471 Bertone says:

    Hey look it’s the JMS era

  472. #472 BD says:

    Go F-Yourself for not giving me multiple questions for Spider-Jeopardy two years ago. LOL
    I beat Wacker to it. I know he so wanted to say it to many of us. Ha.Ha.

  473. #473 drewr15 says:

    Don’t you all see what Wacker’s evil plan is here – he is keeping these comments going until we reach 546 – and then he will tell us the previous 240 comments still happened but we just have to read them a little differently.

    Also I think we are in the voume 2 Mackie run at this point – not sure what number – don’t think I had come back to reading the book again yet after Clone Saga.

  474. #474 Bertone says:

    Now CBR can do an article saying “Brad Douglas tells fan to F himself”

  475. #475 herbiepopnecker says:

    Don’t make me laugh when my lips are chapped!

    From “you don’t control me/I know where my line is/your mom wears
    army boots and I have the pictures”


    “Oh dear, I’m being told to leave – fare thee well”??


  476. #476 drewr15 says:

    I swear when i started writing that last comment (473) we were still around 460 – can’t keep up with the pace of this thread.

  477. #477 George Berryman says:

    Bertone – Brad says that to many of us on a weekly basis.

    Fortunately he’s not trying to get us to buy a product he’s selling. That’d be unprofessional.

  478. #478 AmFan15 says:

    @ George Berryman –
    Well, unless Mountain Dew, Mail Order Comics, and Sam’s Warehouse count!

  479. #479 erock says:

    I know the reboot is dreadfully unpopular around these parts, but that’s how I got back into comics when I was in high school, so I have a secret fond place in my heart for those books. I thought it was cool how Slott referenced the refrigerator cheese named Kevin from that era in the first issue of Big Time.

  480. #480 Andrew says:


    When I think of the reboot, I don’t consider Paul Jenkins’ run. Jenkins’ issues were a sparkling oasis among a wasteland of crap. In fact, I liked his work back then better than I do now. Even Mackie’s run got a bit better once Byrne was forced out and he only had to write one series (as opposed to writing two before Jenkins came onboard). I think Jenkins also inspired him to try a bit better.

  481. #481 AmFan15 says:

    I tell you one thing…Mr. Wacker’s not doing much for HIS cause, but I feel that this is a real bonding experience for us CrawlSpacers!

    Let’s all head to the Tiki Bar…First rounds on me!

  482. #482 666andahalf says:

    It’s true. He does.

    (Just kidding Bertone!)

    At this rate, are we going to need to start making up issues of Spider-Man after we past the most current issues with our posts??

  483. #483 666andahalf says:

    Holy crap I post a response to one and there’s already 20 new posts… This thread is on fire!

    And you know how much us symbiotes hate fire…

  484. #484 Proto Goblin says:

    Holy crap, this was only in the late 200’s when i left to go to work, I didn’t think it would already by in stryzynsky run when I got back. But um ya, I can never remember which issue which for this run so I honestly don’t no whats happening in this particular issue, its gotta be close to the shathra arc though. And oh ya bring back Ben Rielly!!!

  485. #485 Spideydude says:

    And NewBoyz gets a warning for 15 times posting. Dont do it kids. Its not cool.

  486. #486 Ironspidey1983 says:

    Whoa this page has grown exponentially BD I think this is a thread you may have to lock out but it’s been one hellish ride

  487. #487 BD says:

    Why would I lock out the most popular thread in the 12 year history of the board? This one will live on for a long time.

  488. #488 Newboyz says:

    Sorry I didn’t know you could get a warning For posting excessively I don’t post on the message boards so I am not fully aware of your rules

  489. #489 BD says:

    Newboyz, that’s why in the original post I told folks to review the rules of the front page and the board. They are one and the same.

  490. #490 Flying Tiger says:

    This is strangely awesome. And awesomely strange.

    What should Slott have done?? Seriously.

  491. #491 Hagen says:


    ASM 491 MJ and Peter reunite! Dr. Doom speak in all CAPS! Captain America!

  492. #492 the living tribunal says:

    Stephen Wacker wrote, “I did stop reading during that run, but it was mostly because Macchio told me to go F myself. And as a fan…I did what i was told.”

    I think continuing to plunk down your hard earned money for that garbage would’ve been more in keeping with Macchio’s suggestion!

  493. #493 Andrew says:


    I’m pretty sure the roots of the financial crash, war in the Middle East, global-warming and Justin Bieber’s popularity can all be tied back to the Mackie/Byrne relaunch. 😐

  494. #494 James 1 says:

    Does Dan have form? Yes Dan does.

  495. #495 Murf says:

    ASM 495 – final showdown vs. Digger

    BD in 465 said “…I think they’re just pissed you aren’t saying more harsh things about Slott’s quote.”
    I don’t think it even needs to be harsh things… just an acknowledgement that this probably wasn’t the most appropriate way for Mr. Slott to express his frustration would have been sufficient for (at least) me.
    Mr. Slott is clearly someone who is passionate about his work and (after having made sacrifices of both his health and the possibility of more financially rewarding opportunities in order to pursue his vision for Spider-Man) was personally attacked for not caring about the title. Of course he felt offended.
    That’s not a question.
    Likewise, (almost) everyone seems to agree that the manner of the response was inappropriate for a public forum. An acknowledgement to that effect from either Mr. Slott or Mr. Wacker would have done wonders for resolving this – but then we wouldn’t be closing in on 500 responses.

    Unfortunately for many long-time fans the underlying issue here is really that we are feeling increasingly distanced from the current direction of Spider-Man – and this type of interaction feeds into that.
    Understandably, given how much criticism there has been with respect to recent story lines, Mr. Wacker clearly came into the conversation expecting to be demonized, that no matter what he said he would be criticized – and so avoided really saying anything about the actual issue.
    This is interpreted by many of us as still more evidence that Marvel does not care about us or our concerns.

    It is one thing to be convinced about your artistic vision, and to disregard criticism of it because you believe in what you are creating – but whether or not Mr. Slott’s post was appropriate or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not we enjoy the current stories. This very much comes down to whether there is any measure of respect left between the corporation and those of us who purchase their product.
    Personally I find it incredibly sad that they could not take this one opportunity to say “Yes we do hear you. Yes we do understand you are upset/concerned/curious about this, and yes we do acknowledge we could have done better.”

  496. #496 herbiepopnecker says:

    I’m happier by the moment that I chose to dump all marvel titles.

    Wacker’s obfuscation didn’t do much for his reputation; he had
    MANY chances to say, “oooh-KAY, maybe Slott could’ve handled
    this better” or some other straight-up answer. But no….

    HOWEVER, I must remember that I DID enjoy marvel characters up to a
    point, I can always go back and read from my long boxes and high piles
    and forget allll about the current horrid direction the house of (used to have) ideas
    is headed these days (downward…ever downward).

    marvel bad. marvel characters I GREW UP WITH good. marvel characters lately not so good and rather bad.
    (Purists please note, I simply refuse to capitalize the m – ‘kay?!)

  497. #497 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    We’re getting closer to the renumbering.

  498. #498 CRM says:

    I’m far more offended by comment #421 than by anything Dan Slott said.

  499. #499 Sano says:

    Say what you want about Slott’s stories but to not call him a Spider-Man fan I mean you SERIOUSLY have to be kidding me.

    People on the internet can be as mean as they want to because no one knows who they are and they hide behind the anominity of a computer screen. It surprises me when they get the same exact treatment by people who can’t hide their identities that they are suddenly surprised.

    Good for you Slott. Sing along now. “FU and a… FU TOO!” 😛

  500. #500 Mark says:

    @490: “This is strangely awesome. And awesomely strange.”
    But is it Stephen Strange?

    500 – Strange’s trip through time

  501. #501 Javi Trujillo says:

    501-saturday in the park with May! Has anyone heard the song”F.U.” by the new Captain Stacy, Denis Leary? As you can imagine, there are lots of curse words!

  502. #502 cbasfrench says:

    Wow, the number of the posts on this thread is insane!
    I can understand Slott’s frustration in responding to the comments made about him; however, I think it would have been better if he hadn’t said anything at all.
    I have been fortunate enough to meet Slott at the 2009 NYCC and I had a brief but nice conversation with him about his work on Amazing Spider-Man (and, at the time, upcoming work on Mighty AVengers). I can truly say he is a HUGE fan of Spider-Man and he works really hard to come up with stories that will please everyone. He deserves more credit than people actually give him. I can see why Stephen would (sort of) try to defend Slott and even spend time on this website to have discussions with people on here. The one thing that has always bothered me about message board is how being respectful to one another has become the norm when posters cannot agree on something. There’s no need for that, IMO. Anyways, let’s see if we can make it to a 1000 posts!

  503. #503 Andrew says:


    Sano, I completely agree. The people who love to sling insults on the net are usually the meek, socially awkward types who were the victims of bullying and are looking for some outlet to express their pent-up emotions. The anonymity and freedom from consequences means they can say whatever they want to whoever they want when they wouldn’t dream of doing so in their real lives.

    Penny Arcade once did a great strip about this phenomenon (fair warning there’s some course language):

  504. #504 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #502:
    “The one thing that has always bothered me about message board is how being respectful to one another has become the norm when posters cannot agree on something. There’s no need for that, IMO.”

    Being respectful to one another?!?! By geo. y. wells, that’s gotta stop!!

  505. #505 cbasfrench says:

    Sorry herbie, but I don’t get it…

  506. #506 Heartburn says:

    I come on the next morning and there’s almost another 200 posts added. This is crazy!

    Honestly I was hoping this wasn’t Wacker and just some other person trolling around. Its sad to see that this is the real guy.

    @ herbiepopnecker, thanks for sticking up for us Canadians :)

  507. #507 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #505:

    I think you MEANT to type “The one thing that has always bothered me…is how being DISRESPECTFUL
    …has become the norm.”

    Take another look at what you DID type….!

  508. #508 Berserkfury819 says:

    Are we at Sins Past now?

  509. #509 Mark says:

    @507: Why are you being so mean to cbasfrench? Why are you hating him so much?
    (sorry, I forget which font is used for sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek)

  510. #510 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #509

  511. #511 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #510:

    Ooops that should be

    (hangs head in shame)

    (can’t suppress the giggles)

  512. #512 cbasfrench says:

    I see it now. Sorry about that. Obviously meant to say “disrespectful” and not “respectful”. Really changes the meaning doesn’t it! :-)

  513. #513 Mark says:

    @512: Don’t let herbiepopnecker order you around, cbasfrench! If you don’t want respectful dialogue on these boards, then by golly, you should drop the f-bomb on him. (To paraphrase classic Bill Cosby: “What the foul filth! I’ll foul filth and foul filth foul his filth!”)

    513: was this the Gwen-Norman bombshell issue?

  514. #514 Sano says:


    Andrew – Yeah Penny Arcade got it just right LOL!

  515. #515 H4M2.0 says:

    STEPHEN!!! YOU ROCK!!! Thank you for putting Kevin in his place! HELLZ YEAH!

  516. #516 H4M2.0 says:

    And George to? I love this guy!

  517. #517 Pete Wiggins says:

    Part 3 of “Skin Deep” featuring Charlie Weiderman aka Molten Man Mk II…

  518. #518 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    Skin Deep, Part Four.

    There’s this long reply I can’t post here, apparently.

  519. #519 Bertone says:


    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I know you’ve had your problems with Kevin and George. However, coming onto this website (THEIR WEBSITE) and cheering on them “getting put in their place” is really poor form of you. Especially since you are banned. Doing stuff like this is disrespectful to Brad. When you insult one of Brad’s staff members, you are insulting and disrespecting Brad by default. Don’t do this again.

  520. #520 BD says:

    Don’t waste your time on the kid. He doesn’t have any respect for the staff of the site or me. I just banned his IP again.

  521. #521 Proto Goblin says:

    So what happens to the issue number game when we surpass current issues of spidey? Ive got we’ll make our own stories, better stories, and they’ll have Black Jack and Hookers, infact forget the stories and the Black Jack, ahhh screw the whole thing.

  522. #522 CrazyChris says:

    We’re 1% the way toward surpassing ASM’s direct market sales estimates!

  523. #523 Rzerox21xx says:

    wow, just when I started buying big time, now I’m regretting it more and more. First was Norah talking about Randy’s enourmous something, now this.

  524. #524 CloneSaga says:

    Will this stop before #546?? If not, it will be a new alternate posting timeline and I refuse to read any more of it. Even if the number of posts per hour are three-doubled. We already have the rotating crew of writers. And continuity and characterization is good so far. Looking forward to Peter bringing he Kingpin Down!

  525. #525 Stephen Wacker says:

    Spider-Man is about youth.

  526. #526 James 1 says:

    Spider-Man returns from the dead after shedding his skin. ASM 527

  527. #527 Pete Wiggins says:

    Ooooh, we’re on part 3 of “The Other”, guest-written by Peter David and pencilled by Mike Deodato Jr, with a Ben Reilly Spider-‘jamas variant cover by the late, great Mike Wieringo (RIP Ringo), and featuring Tracer, the self-proclaimed god of machines! Where is that guy these days anyway? The Hypno-Hustler has more appearences to his name than him at this point…

  528. #528 Pete Wiggins says:

    Bah! Beaten to the post! James 1, I command you to go f— yourself! (kidding, of course, I don’t want to get banned)

  529. #529 VenomGenius says:

    Re 525

    I’m confused how that statement ties into the conversation…it seemed a bit random…

  530. #530 CloneSaga says:

    @525 Wacker: Spider-Man is not about youth before the end of #545. LOL

  531. #531 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #513:

    Oh, yeh? How’d you like to step outside, take off your coat and get lost? 😛

  532. #532 Stuart Green says:

    @Mr. Wacker’s response in #525 – I disagree. Spider-Man is about responsibility, not youth. It’s not “with great power, comes great youth”, y’ know. 😉

  533. #533 Stephen Wacker says:

    Citizen Kane is about a sled…but it’s not ABOUT a sled.

  534. #534 Kevin Cushing says:

    Guys, why are you even letting him bait you in this direction? When he throws out that completely random comment, don’t you think he KNOWS exactly how you’re going to react? This isn’t your big chance to convince him he’s wrong, it’s just your big chance to amuse him as he looks down on you. Don’t fall for it.

  535. #535 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #533:

    Dang it, man!! “Spoiler Alert”!!

  536. #536 Tonyd117 says:

    Good call Kev…

  537. #537 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #534:

    As the long, long wait for a straight answer from the guy drags on and on and on and…

    As he quietly simmers about “one annoying thing about Canada”.
    Namely, WE won Olympic hockey gold and you didn’t :-)
    Be good sports/neighbours and get over it, already, and learn to
    spell neighbours correctly while you’re at it, eh? Always complaining
    aboot something…

  538. #538 Stephen Wacker says:

    Kevin, you’re projecting. I don’t look down on you, but now I know how you feel about me and I think it’s a shame.


  539. #539 Dan Slott responds to message-board insult with well-deserved f-bomb | Robot 6 @ Comic Book Resources – Covering Comic Book News and Entertainment says:

    […] Both in the original thread and on other sites where the exchange has been brought up, like this post and comment thread at Spider-Man Crawlspace or this question on Tom Brevoort’s formspring account, many fans responded to the exchange […]

  540. #540 Stephen Wacker says:

    Dan Slott got through most of the day without cursing today, if anyone’s interested. Humberto didn’t make it though…Man! What language!

  541. #541 Bertone says:

    Wow we’re getting close to OMD!

  542. #542 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    This is amazing (see what I did there?).

    This is the epic beatdown between Spidey and Kingpin.

    And I basically agree with Robot 6 here.

  543. #543 Mark says:

    @540: Now that’s a reply! (But do you support Humberto like you do Slott?)

    @531: Oh yeah, well, why don’t you make like a tree and leaf!
    I know you are, but what am I?
    Na na na na na… I can’t hear you… la la la la la

    543 – The issue before OMD

  544. #544 DMaynor says:

    Issue 544 First part of One More Day… it all goes down hill from here

  545. #545 Alex says:

    Part 1 of OMD. At least I’m not Part 4…

  546. #546 Alex says:


  547. #547 Pete Wiggins says:

    @ 542 For that pun, you must die…

    544: Part One of “One More Day”…

  548. #548 CrazyChris says:

    Wow, we finally got more posts then there are issues of ASM. Where does the game go from here?

  549. #549 Bertone says:

    Hey I got Menace and Jackpot!

  550. #550 Pete Wiggins says:

    Beaten to the finshing line again! Curse you Richards!

  551. #551 Pete Wiggins says:

    Part 2 of Menace’s introduction. Aha, beat you!

  552. #552 Pete Wiggins says:

    Making his triumphant debut here in the Mighty Marvel Manner, our webslinging wonder’s most fearsome foe to date… Freak?

  553. #553 Bertone says:

    It’s not a game to “beat” people. Merely a game. Don’t post for the sake of “beating” others.

  554. #554 Tonyd117 says:

    Now that we’re into BND…I can’t remember what started all this. Its like there’s a blindspot in my head whenever I think about it. I remember Dan Slott and…Dman. There it is again…

  555. #555 Alex says:

    @554. It was something about Dan going to say something but he got smashed over the head by a brick and things seemed to happen from there. I think…
    And @CrazyChris, we’re still 100 issues off current ASM issues? You get your issues mixed up there ;)?

  556. #556 Andrew says:

    Early BND was, for the most part, terrible. Remember such winners as Freak, Jackpot, the Bookie and Menace. However, I think we’re in the ‘Sometimes it Snows in April (?)’ storyline by Zeb Wells which I liked a lot though. I like stories where Spidey has to brave the elements.

  557. #557 CrazyChris says:

    @Alex, I may be suffering from selective amnesia. For some reason I thought ASM ended at issue 545.

  558. #558 Pete Wiggins says:

    @ 553 Thought I made it clear I was just joking. A couple of folks got their posts in before I did, so I decided to make a joke out of it. I’m not out to infringe on anybody. Sorry if I didn’t make that obvious. Now, if we’re still on #556…

    This issue: Spidey takes lessons from Vern the bum on how to stay warm in a blizzard by stuffing his costume with newspaper!

  559. #559 Pete Wiggins says:

    … or rather, that was three issues ago. This issue: Part 1 of “Peter Parker, Paparazzi”, unfortunately titled, “The Money Shot”, introducing Screwball and Paper Doll.

  560. #560 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    @CrazyChris – I seem to recall you reviewing some of these fictitious ASM issues.

    #544 – “It all goes downhill from here.”

    We’ve been going downhill since #400, to be honest. Has there ever been a time since then when ASM was a soaring success?

  561. #561 DMaynor says:

    Two Bit – I wasn’t a fan of the Clone Saga but many here seemed to enjoy it. As for issue 400, it was a great issue. A heartfelt story that ended with the death of Aunt May.

  562. #562 Two-Bit Specialist says:


    I should’ve said since #401. I don’t even know what that was.

  563. #563 Flying Tiger says:

    Good to see that the internet is keeping it fresh. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Marvel Propaganda has no place in comics.

    Amazing Spider-Man #563: More stupid BND. And The Bookie. Terrific stuff. Loss of readers at that point was 40,000+.

  564. #564 Spider-Dad says:

    #564 POV or as BD would say POS!

    @498. What part of my post “offended” you? Was it the pig comment, or the heat in kitchen thingy? Maybe it was because I forgot to say “wait until next century”?

  565. #565 herbiepopnecker says:

    Meanwhile, has no one noticed Slott’s “suggestion”
    was and is extremely redundant, since marvel is
    already doing “that” to us?

  566. #566 Stephen Wacker says:

    How deeply do you think Marvel hates you? Does it know any end? I mean, just how bad are we?

  567. #567 Spideydude says:

    @562: 401 was horrible and such. Crossfire. (part two) Mindscrew with Judas Traveller.

  568. #568 Andrew says:


    “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Marvel Propaganda”

    Wow. That’s… very clever. And by “very clever” I mean that makes no sense. That comment makes as much sense as the homeless guy outside my building who sometimes yells at the voices in his head. Maybe I’m just not smart enough to understand it. How long did it take you to come up with that brilliant witticism? 😐

    If you’re going to continually launch tirades against Wacker (who seems like he’s left anyway) at least make it funny and semi-coherent. :-)

  569. #569 Stephen Wacker says:

    For the record, I’m cool with incoherence. I speak the language.

  570. #570 Spider-Dad says:

    NWTD Part II…

    Anyway, I don’t feel Marvel hates anyone in particular. I think some fans think Marvel is more obtuse in their overall thinking. Hatred…naw…

    Me, I just wonder why you won’t answer the post #421…c’mon, only how many days until pitchers report to spring training???

  571. #571 Stephen Wacker says:

    I just don’t feel like scrolling back that far.

  572. #572 Spider-Dad says:

    Well, I can understand why. Some carpel tunnel may be sitting in with all this typing you do. As a fellow redbird fan, let me help ya out…

    @ Steve: Staying in NY getting to ya? You sound like a Cubs fan defending something that is not really worth defending.

    BTW: Do you like the Berkman pickup for LF? Weird, not sure if I do. Go Cardinals!

  573. #573 stephen wacker says:

    I don’t think there’s much here of my defending anything, but regardless…

    I’m hopeful of the Berkman pickup. (I’m an annoying sports fan is that I don’t have a lot of strong opinions.)

    I do know one of the Cardinal writers for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch is a huge comics fan and even mentioned the Spidey letter column in one article.

  574. #574 Spider-Dad says:

    Berkman had knee surgery last year and is feeling better. We will have to see. No matter what, I will go to Busch this year and root for him. Always thought he was a quality player, much like Larry Walker. We will have to see…for me it is about results. Gamble yes? If it works, payoff is big…

    As for this situation with Dan, I guess if his boss wasn’t such a slave driver he wouldn’t be stressed so much to lash out at a fan like that. :)

    I do truly understand Dan’s frustration. DS is clearly passionate about Spider-Man and I for one believe it is his dream job. In my job I get criticized for my decisions, (you see I do sit in the “big” chair…) and fully understand that sometimes boneheads will criticize, nitpick or say things are just flat out idiotic. Do I want to vent? You betcha. The key is walk away, calm down and do your best to say f*** you, without saying f*** you. To survive in any position of responsibility, (especially in the entertainment biz) you really have to have thick skin…always take the high road. The view is better.

    Good luck with this latest controversy. By now, you should be used to it..

  575. #575 Spider-Dad says:

    Aw cripes. Just realized that last post was the excellent Flash Thompson story by Guggenheim…now if that story arc did not come out of no where and we had seen Flash go off to serve a few issues before, it would have been even better.

    Sorry…nitpicking again.

  576. #576 Andrew says:

    I was very impressed that the US Marine corp let him serve even though he still had extensive brain-damage and partial amnesia.

    My nitpick. 😉 But yeah, good story.

  577. #577 Bertone says:

    Poor Flash…he had just lost his ability to walk a few years before and had finally regained it. That Thompson luck.

  578. #578 Stephen Wacker says:

    I have a graph that will show (using my questionable and remedial statistical skills) that this thread is falling off a cliff as of post #546! Good luck getting new readers to this thread (that was what you said you wanted in your “Crawlspace Manifesto”, no?)!

    Spider-Man Crawlspace? Ha! Sure. more like Spider-man “Fall” Space!!

    I am boycotting this thread and others like it until you bring back some of the posters from pre#546. I used to love this thread, but no more. You have slapped my last Monday in the face, Crawlspace!!

    Now, all of you come join me in my club, Smelt It House! I will make a jpeg for you and together we can pretend the world is against us!! ::roll eyes:: :vomit face ::shrug::shrug::FAIL:Star Trek guy doing facepalm thing::

    It’s time for us to ban together to get the owner guy fired for this! This website used to be better without him!!!

    -#2 on the petition I made!!!!

  579. #579 FSUSpiderfan says:

    Mockery is the highest form of flattery.

  580. #580 Mark says:

    If this thread is going in the wrong direction, we could always have Mephisto ret-con the last 400 posts. (Pow, zing!)

  581. #581 CRM says:

    I think that the Robot 6 commentary in the link on #539 puts it very well, pretty much exactly how I feel.


    I was offended by the “Go Cardinals”….ugh, seriously, who says crap like that? :)

    Issue #581 I was one of the Molten Man issues where we kind of find out about Harry’s “history”, written by none other than Dan Slott.

  582. #582 herbiepopnecker says:

    Crawl Space uber alles!

    marvel doesn’t hate anybody; a conglomerate can’t have emotions.
    On the other hand, people working for marvel are disappointed and
    bewildered that so many fans are now FORMER fans and wish same
    would just shut the aich-ee-two-hockey-sticks up.

    And hey, I breached the Smelt It House lair and….wouldn’t you
    know it?! Wacker’s graph is UPSIDE-DOWN!! Oh, that guy….!

  583. #583 Andrew says:

    583! This is the issue with Obama that sold ten gazillion copies!

    Heeeey… I know how to get this thread to a thousand posts. Let’s insert politics into it!

    Stephen Wacker cries more than Glenn Beck and promotes himself more than Sarah Palin. There we go. 😉

  584. #584 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    The more I think about it, the more I’m beginning to liken Mr. Wacker to the bad guy from Lethal Weapon 2.

    “I have diplomatic immunity! I can get away with anything!

    Can’t touch this!!!” *sings song*

  585. #585 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #584:

    Okay, I can buy the Immunity part.
    But Diplomatic? Nah, not so much.

  586. #586 Enigma_2099 says:

    You guys are still at it?!?!


    You’re kidding, right? This thread derailed into a trainwreck the minute YOU showed up!!!

  587. #587 Stephen Wacker says:

    ENIGMA: I can certainly understand why you wouldn’t want the people you harangue about to respond to you. I mean, JEEZ, why won’t people just let you be relentlessly rude and swim in conjecture privately?!?!?

  588. #588 BD says:

    @Wacker’s 578 post:
    The difference is I don’t charge people $3.99 each time they enter the Crawlspace. I think when you plunk your money down it entitles you to an opinion. People have always been passionate about Spider-Man, this is the one constant that we both agree on. If Stan Lee were writing the book again, in this day and age, he’d still have critics.
    I don’t think he’d say go F-yourself, but he’d write something more creative. Tom DeFalco had a great line at the Spider-Girl boards to a critic. He said, “I own ya one.” Of all people I would think a writer would not simply settle for a cheap shot. Think of some creative way to tell someone off.

  589. #589 pickwick says:

    Hot damn, Wacker’s made this site fun and interesting again! Things haven’t been this great since Farley was sent packing. Three cheers to the fly in the ointment that reminds us that community is only interesting if it allows and responds to that which disturbs and disrupts. Probably not a popular opinion . . . but i stand by it.

  590. #590 Slash says:

    Issue 591! Superboy VS Superman 😀

    Wait a second. Oh, we are talking about Spider-man. Right.

    p.s. LOL I’m kidding, of course I know Spider-man ended in issue 545 😛

  591. #591 Stephen Wacker says:

    Brad, plenty of writers settle for cheap shots…especially when it comes to cranks and hecklers. Dan usually doesn’t. He certainly did this time.

    But to pretend this is just uncommon and beyond the pale is forcing people here to jump through a lot of hysterical hoops. This is all about who it was…and it’s why the piece was posted in the first place.

  592. #592 Stephen Wacker says:

    Also I’m pretty sure we don’t charge you 3.99 to talk to Dan on the internet.

    I’ll check though.

  593. #593 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    @Slash – What? Then what is this issue #648 I’m holding in my hands? Maybe a printing error. 😉

  594. #594 BD says:

    Yes the story made it headline newsworthy because the comment was made by a professional comic book writer. This person is the lead writer of the flagship character of your company. Your argument is that he doesn’t work for Marvel, he works for you. Who pays his checks? Is it Disney/ Marvel or do you write a check to him personally that says Steve Wacker on it?

    The imaginary hoop you talk about is a general rule in business, however I’ll concede that it may be different at Marvel.
    If a customer buys a product they expect the employee and company they bought the product from to be professional.
    Meaning they are civil and respectful to the customer.
    If you told a pizza man that this pizza sucks and the cook was a hack, they should say that they’re sorry you feel that way and ask how they can fix the problem. The customer is wrong in his behavior but it doesn’t mean the seller has a right to be rude too.
    A manager should not condone the pizza man shoving the pie down the customers throat and then telling him to go f-themselves. The pizza man would be reprimanded or fired at the very least.
    Now I’m not asking for Slott to be fired or reprimanded. I just don’t think Marvel has any policy when it comes to responding to fans online. Does it have one?

    As far as Slott charging us $3.99 each time he talks to us. Will he at least do some heavy breathing next time?

  595. #595 Mark says:

    @594: Even if a company does not want a particularly obnoxious customer to come back, they can do so in a professional manner. A bar bouncer can be brutally physical in knocking a drunk out the door, but the bouncer shouldn’t be screaming and taking it personally while doing so.

    I agree that Slott should not be fired or reprimanded. Just that he should have been cleverer and professional when telling the original poster that a proctology exam does not require him to stick his head up his own backside.

  596. #596 Bertone says:

    Hot dog we’re in the middle of American Son.

  597. #597 Stephen Wacker says:

    Do you blame a comedy club if the performer takes a down a heckler? I suppose you do, but most people don’t.

    Your frustration about it aside, the examples you cite aren’t applicable. Dan is simply not an employee at Marvel. And we don’t control our talent’s free time they way you think we do (or wish that we would). That’s one of the many benefits of freelancing.

    (Not too mention the fact that we don’t pay Dan to talk on message boards. Would you ban a moderator here if they got in a fight with another comic book fan (a potential listener, after all) at the comic book store this week? I assume so, since he’s a representative of your website, but I think that’s wrong.)

  598. #598 Bertone says:

    Actually Brad has punished staff members and contributors for attacking members. Gerard was reprimanded for responding to a heckler in one of his reviews.

  599. #599 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    We’re almost at Aunt May’s wedding. Hard to believe she had died only 200 issues ago.

  600. #600 Stephen Wacker says:

    Bert-read my example again.

  601. #601 CrazyChris says:

    600 comments! I don’t know what happened in #600 exactly but I hear Doc Ock got ugly.

  602. #602 Bertone says:

    I reread it…are you saying you thought Brad was wrong to punish Gerard?

  603. #603 Stephen Wacker says:

    I didn’t talk about behavior here.

  604. #604 Kevin Cushing says:


    Once again you’re trying to reframe the issue in a way that isn’t a viable comparison. A) Brad does not pay us. B) We’re not trying to sell anyone anything. Both of these things are critical to the debate over Slott’s behavior.

  605. #605 Michael Deery says:

    In the UK we have a term for people who get outraged at minor things like this, “Daily Mail readers.” The Daily Mail being a newspaper that usually prints over the top nonsense that get’s people outraged about how awful everything is and how everything was better in the old days. Hmm, maybe there’s more to this comparison. Anyway, usually they’re not actually outraged, they just want to be or don’t like the person involved. They usually haven’t seen the thing for themselves, someone has said, “here is something to be outraged over.” And the, for lack of a better word, victim s usually the least outraged, or,like this case, not outraged at all. In fact he and Dan have spoken about it since, turns out it was all a big misunderstanding and apologies were in order. The two guys actually involved in the situation can put it behind them but the rest of the world can’t. Funny that. I guess it’s just easier to believe that Dan is a bad person. After all, comic are all opinion, good and bad are subjective but if the person is an asshole, you can at least be morally right.

    All this talk of professionalism is comical. Just because a guy is professional doesn’t mean he can’t have a bad day? Dan Slott is not as perfect as all of you, who have never said anything out of turn. Now, I know what you’re all going to say, “He can’t take criticism!” Laughable. He’s a successful writer, to get to where he is he would have had to take criticism far worse than what passes for critical thought on an internet message board. Wacker has probably said worse to him that any of you. Your definition of professionalism seems to be letting someone smear shit on your face and instead of saying, “Hey stop that!” you want them to say, “Thank you sir, can I have another!”

    And why do you expect Wacker to state his opinion on the whole thing,I can see the headline now, SPIDEY EDITOR SAYS IT’S OK TO TELL FANS TO FUCK OFF or SPIDEY EDITOR BLASTS SPIDEY WRITER.

  606. #606 Michael Deery says:

    I do have a question, what do you guys want Marvel to do?

  607. #607 DMaynor says:

    @ Post 597 Michael Richards took a heckler down one time at a comedy club… it did wonders for his career.

  608. #608 Stuart Green says:

    Over 600 replies? Oh, man! If this keeps up, we’ll have more replies on this thread than there are issues of “The Amazing Spider-Man”.

  609. #609 Stuart Green says:

    @ Mr. Wacker – My offer still stands to have a peaceful, fun, calm, non-cussing talk about Spidey in a PM or IM talk some time, in case you missed my earlier comment. That is, when you have the free time to talk. I hope everyone here has a good day. :)

  610. #610 Andrew says:


    This is probably the most spot-on analysis I’ve seen so far about this whole debacle. And it only took 600 comments.

  611. #611 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #610:

    Dear Sir or madam,

    You may be right.

    @ #606:

    marvel (execs, full-time, free-lancers, whatever) doesn’t have to do
    anything except treat customers with courtesy, respect and lack of F-bombs.

  612. #612 Miles_Warren says:

    Why haven’t I posted in this thread yet? lol

    Over 600 comments and I’m only posting now? I don’t know what issue #612 is all about. I just know its the issue right after that dreadful Deadpool team-up (#611)

  613. #613 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #612:

    You haven’t posted here till now?!?!
    You….you…you Jackal!!

  614. #614 Mark says:

    @597: The example of a heckler is not applicable either. The heckler is interrupting a performance by speaking as loudly as the performer. Some of us are making the point that the original poster, who could easily be ignored as an illogical internet ranter, got more attention when someone who actually had respect and authority (Slott) used his megaphone to start a pissing contest.

    If you want a better example, this is a case of some random person yelling an insult from the stands of a pro game, and the player singling out this one person to run into the stands to start a fight.

    @605: I definitely haven’t read all the comments. Maybe there is more “outrage” here than I realized. (But I don’t think so.)

    “In fact he and Dan have spoken about it since, turns out it was all a big misunderstanding and apologies were in order.”
    But then you spent a great deal of your comment saying that Slott had nothing to apologize for?
    If you had left it at “apologies were exchanged”, that would have been fine.

    “Your definition of professionalism seems to be letting someone smear shit on your face and instead of saying, ‘Hey stop that!’ you want them to say, ‘Thank you sir, can I have another!'”
    Professionalism means that you give the irrational voice in the crowd just as much attention as it deserves (little), and save the real emotions for people that are actually important to your job. (There is a saying about trying to please all the people.) Your example doesn’t work, because this guy was never close enough to “smear shit”. At most, he was empty handed and claiming that if he had a dung handy, he would use it.

  615. #615 Wheatcakes says:

    Isn’t flaming a bannable offense (post 578, Crawlspace rule 2 and 4)? Mr Wacker’s unfunny comments are quite baiting and annoying. And they smell bad and contribute to a rise in communism somehow.

  616. #616 Jonny says:

    Question- Which “admin” has said “hurtful” stuff about Slott? I got a feeling by mod he means George but I’m fairly certain George hasn’t said anything “hurtful” either

    And who the frig said he should die in a house fire? Some people just confuse me

    If we go beyond 650 do we get to start writing spider-man history

    615- i gave up reading 10 issues ago

  617. #617 Spider-Dad says:

    @Comment 581

    Who says that? People in the know. People like myself and the esteemed editor of Amazing Spider-Man. :)

  618. #618 persian-spider says:

    Hi everyone!
    i have not been around for a while. can somebody tell me what is going on here?! I know what Mr. Slott did but why so many comments?

  619. #619 Epidot says:

    Wow, this is still going on?

  620. #620 Two-Bit Specialist says:


    We’re trying to get as many comments as the number of Amazing Spider-man issues, which is 649. I forgot what issue #620 was about, though.

  621. #621 Javi says:

    621, written by slott, with Black Cat and Mr. Negative

  622. #622 Jack Brooks says:

    Where’s the proof of this alleged “fire” comment?

  623. #623 Flying Tiger says:

    No proof. Slott: you don’t need proof when you’re being a drama queen, you can just make unsupported statements and the Compliant Bully Report will repeat it uncritically.

  624. #624 Flying Tiger says:

    Slott- want to clarify what you said on your formspring account- I never said you were faking an illness man. I’m saying you’re acting like a p_ssy over it given it’s left you able to continue to yammer all over the net. You mentioned it to play the sympathy card, which is WEAK. If you want to have a virtual reality brawl with lejayjay or whoever just do it, don’t do the “fat kid gets a note from mom” schtick.

    Hope that clears it up for you.

    Also mods- I am responding to Mr. Slott, explaining the past post, not going on a new tangent of complaint. It’s just the Mr. Slott seems to have a bit of an issue with attributing quotes to us with a kind of interpretative approach rather than a cut and paste approach.

    Anyway that’s it, someone else can run this to 651. :)

  625. #625 BD says:

    Flying Tiger,
    You can’t say someone is a pussy or acting like a pussy. That is a personal attack. This is your 2nd warning.

  626. #626 persian-spider says:

    I used to trust Mr. Slott. Now I am very very confused

  627. #627 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    Dang it, we were so close to getting to #650 comments.

  628. #628 Chris Kuehl says:

    I don’t like that a comic-book fan told Dan Slott and other Marvel employees to die in a fire, but I don’t really trust the writer of The Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day series either, because him along with Quesada ruined Mary Jane Watson and Peter Parkers’ moral backgrounds in “One More Day” that caused the new alternate Marvel Spidey Universe. Slott’s remarks towards the fan shows that he was standing up for himself, but maybe he was too harsh towards the fan. I do agree that the fan needs to be banned from this website besides. I only read X-MEN: Curse of the Mutants where Spidey will join the team in the hopefully near future, Spider-Man: Marvel Adventures, and “Carnage” limited-series parts 1-5 now.

  629. #629 Stephen Wacker says:

    Let’s start a palindromic thread and start reposting everything in reverse order.

  630. #630 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #629

    Let’s not.

  631. #631 Pete Wiggins says:

    Part 2 of “Shed”, in which the Lizard consumes Curt Connors’ own son under the influence of the Kravinoffs. And it plummets downhill from there…

  632. #632 Stephen Wacker says:

    Trying again.

    Pete, you next.

  633. #633 Jon M. Wilson says:

    Shed part 4

  634. #634 Pete Wiggins says:

    Re: #634: Mr Wacker, I wasn’t commenting on how I percieve the quality of the story (how can I when I haven’t read it myself?), but I know what happened because I keep up on the reviews. To clarify, what I meant was that the shit hits the fan after that issue, when the Lizard draws out the “lizard-brain” in the New Yorkers. Whilst I’m not going to pretend that’s a story I’d necessarily rush out and buy, I’m not slamming it, or indeed you, or Zeb Wells, who wrote it, or Dan Slott (whose past work on She-hulk still entertains me immensely), or anyone else in the former Brain Trust.

  635. #635 Pete Wiggins says:

    As for the issue that started this off, well, I’m reminded of a time a few years ago when Peter David put out a statement on his website. I forget the exact details but I think he was putting tighter controls on the posters; the main issue being that one of these “contributors” had made vile and crass sexual statements about his wife, which I think many of us would agree is far, FAR, worse than the statement made against Dan, and fewer people would’ve blamed him if he had told whomever it was to go fuck themselves, but his statement was very composed and dignified, with no profanities (although there was no doubtfrom reading it that PAD was rightly PISSED), so, yeah, I think by comparison Dan overreacted there, or at least, maybe he shouldn’t have dignified that guy with a response. But, well… stones and glass houses…

  636. #636 George Berryman says:

    @628 to Chris Kuehl

    No one told Dan Slott to die in a fire on Crawl Space. It did not happen.

  637. #637 Stephen Wacker says:

    “No one told Dan Slott to die in a fire on Crawl Space. ”

    I love that qualifier.


  638. #638 George Berryman says:

    We don’t moderate what our forum members say at other sites, Steve. If Slott, for example, still had an active account here we wouldn’t warn/ban him for saying “Go f-ck yourself” to someone at CBR.

    We’ve got over eleven-hundred members here. Only the Admins/Mods represent the site. It’s not like the other eleven-hundred members are writing our flagship comic title.

    Here’s a quick rundown for you.

    1.) We’ve been accused of letting someone say “Dan Slott should die in a fire” at our site. Turns out that wasn’t at all true.
    2.) We’ve been accused of editing Slott’s wiki page. Again – not true, and the culprit admitted to it in the comments of Brad’s recently posts editorial.

    We’re not the ones calling names when we disagree with people or throwing out “Eff yous.” We leave that for the “pros” at Marvel.

  639. #639 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    Oh, no. We’re now in OMIT.

  640. #640 Stephen Wacker says:

    George, this “Eff you” of Dan’s really seems to have struck you personally. Did something like this happen when you were a child? You really seem to be taking it to heart. It’s a good thing you never new the previous generation of creators. Many said much, much worse about and to fans.

    Regardless, your post drives home, why Marvel doesn’t feel responsible for what freeelancers do on their off time. I know you’re desperately wanting your arbitrary guidelines to only apply to everyone else, but that and your Burt Reynolds fantasy will have to remain just that.


  641. #641 George Berryman says:

    “George, this “Eff you” of Dan’s really seems to have struck you personally. Did something like this happen when you were a child? You really seem to be taking it to heart.”

    Again – I’m not the one making insults here. That’s been you, again and again.

    “It’s a good thing you never new the previous generation of creators. Many said much, much worse about and to fans.”

    I’m sure writers, artists and editors have said worse about their customers in the past and that they do so often now and that they will often in the future. But doing so in public is unprofessional.

    “Regardless, your post drives home, why Marvel doesn’t feel responsible for what freeelancers do on their off time. I know you’re desperately wanting your arbitrary guidelines to only apply to everyone else, but that and your Burt Reynolds fantasy will have to remain just that.”

    It’s laughable when you claim that the writer of one of your flagship titles, who does interviews to promote Marvel comics and who appears at conventions signing for Marvel doesn’t represent the company in any way.

  642. #642 Stephen Wacker says:

    When you take everything as an insult, you will be insulted a lot.

    Sorry that reality is laughable. I feel your pain.


  643. #643 George Berryman says:

    “Sorry that reality is laughable. I feel your pain.”

    Uh huh.

  644. #644 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    The Origin of the Species. If I recall correctly, there were some good things said about this one on this very website, right?

  645. #645 herbiepopnecker says:

    But…have we reached as many posts as there are issues of ASM?
    Can we play this game with PPTSS or something at the other long thread?

  646. #646 Stephen Wacker says:

    Given Mr. berryman’s posting habits, it’s pretty clear why people here feel they can get way with as much as they do.

    I’m disappointed that folks like himself can give comic fans a bad name.


  647. #647 George Berryman says:

    “Given Mr. berryman’s posting habits, it’s pretty clear why people here feel they can get way with as much as they do.”

    That’s rich coming from someone who’ve we let get away with *a lot* of asinine behavior in the last few days.

    “I’m disappointed that folks like himself can give comic fans a bad name.”

    It’s not like I’m a Marvel writer telling folks to go f-ck themselves.

    Looking forward to you swerving around that with another thinly veiled insult.

  648. #648 BD says:

    Here’s your first warning. The insults of George are done. Also your insult of Kevin about how he is nice when he wants something was a very cheap shot and you were talking down to him like a child.

  649. #649 Bertone says:

    and with this we are at the current issue number of ASM

  650. #650 Spidey SuperStories says:

    Stopped reading at 640. Cushing vs. Wacker was a good debate. Slott: anger management and Niqill.

  651. #651 Stephen Wacker says:

    Can I just post a jpeg of him in response then? I presume that would be okay? Or is that just a George thing?

    (also I’m giving out a “Wacker Warning” to Kevin and George for their double standards!!! Two more and you aren’t allowed to wear shirts for a week! This is VERY serious. People here will tell me if you’re wearing a shirt.)


  652. #652 Stephen Wacker says:


    I admire the high threshold you have for insults aimed at me. Mine’s pretty high as well.

    Can I just post a jpeg of him in response then? I presume that would be okay? Or is that just a George thing?

    (also I’m giving out a “Wacker Warning” to Kevin and George for their double standards!!! Two more and you aren’t allowed to wear shirts for a week! This is VERY serious. People here will tell me if you’re wearing a shirt.)

    Truth is, as evidenced here and in other threads, you’re under a lot of pressure to make sure I don’t respond to nonsense here anymore. I think you should follow your clientele’s wishes and kick me out of here outright.


  653. #653 Stephen Wacker says:


    George since you are still harping on dan’s “f you” comment after it’s been resolved, let me say this.

    Ultimately The difference between you and Dan Slott is that Dan apologized.

    Neither of you are above being in error, but one of you has class and courage enough to admit it.


  654. #654 Donovan Grant says:

    Why is George in error? And wat makes him lack courage to admit it? That’s subjective.

  655. #655 George Berryman says:

    Okay I’ll bite.

    How exactly am I in error here, Stephen?

    What’s my “double standard?”

    What was wrong with the picture I linked to? Was it doctored somehow? Was it somehow untrue? If so, how?

    And lastly, what precisely have I done that I need to apologize for?

    Do us all a favor and, for once, be specific with your reply.

  656. #656 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    Now we’re beyond the solicitations for ASM.

    And with the beginning of Big Time, I find out there is justice in this world. :)

  657. #657 Stephen Wacker says:

    Your double standard is simply being unable to accept people behaving in the abrasive manner you behave in. You feign insult at a pretty regular intervals. Almost the like the Ol’ Faithful of pearl clutching.

    Posting jpegs as responses is just annoying and childish…which is behavior you seem to not want others to partake.

    I understand you and your club don’t see this. …but I’ve never been much of a joiner.

  658. #658 George Berryman says:

    Okay let’s be clear Stephen. I wasn’t insulted by anything you said here. But you *were* trying to be insulting. I’ve been civil. I haven’t been tossing insults your way.

    What abrasive behavior can I not accept? Dan telling a Marvel fan to “go eff himself”… hey it’s not any sweat off my back. And no one here has said the guy who got into it with Dan was in the right in the first place. But when people, including myself, point to Dan’s behavior and label it unprofessional, well… they’re correct. It was unprofessional.

    I guess you didn’t like the picture since it disproved your argument that Dan Slott in no way represents Marvel? He *does* represent Marvel, Stephen, and you know it. Every time he plugs Marvel stuff on any number of news sites, any time he shows up to sign autographs… he’s the writer of Amazing Spider-Man. You honestly thought you could get away with saying he *doesn’t* represent the company? Seriously?

    Keep calling us pearl clutchers, Stephen, or anything other insult or name you can think of. We aren’t the ones name calling or insulting here – no that would be the “pro” representing Marvel. And it isn’t saying much for the ground your arguments are standing on.

  659. #659 herbiepopnecker says:

    @ #657:

    And your responses haven’t been annoying and childish?
    Can I ask that you try acting as the professional your’re
    supposed to be?

  660. #660 Stephen Wacker says:

    Herbie, sorry you don’t like the way I am, but you are fictional to me. Certainly I don’t have to follow rules that you yourself won’t even stand behind.

    And again George, all your other suppositions and innuendo aside, Dan made a mistake and apologized. You on the other hand have worked hard to get a bunch of people to back up your crusade for a big pile on…like any good bully does. What if you used your powers for good? Just think of what you could accomplish.


  661. #661 herbiepopnecker says:

    Mr. Wacker:

    Don’t worry about me – a real person who used to
    be a very very loyal marvel fan.

    Worry about representing marvel in a professional way.

  662. #662 George Berryman says:

    “And again George, all your other suppositions and innuendo aside, Dan made a mistake and apologized.”

    It’s like Mephisto made it never-happen. Weee!

    But seriously, the next time Dan feels like telling someone to “eff himself,” do us a favor. Tell him to take a deep breath, have him count to ten, and then get him to call Tom DeFalco who can explain to him how a professional should respond to a disgruntled yet potentially paying customer. Believe me on this, Dan would’ve gotten a lot more support (even from me) if he’d said “Well hey, sorry you don’t like it and maybe down the line there’ll be something you’ll dig more” instead of “Hey go eff yourself.”

    “You on the other hand have worked hard to get a bunch of people to back up your crusade for a big pile on…like any good bully does.”

    I haven’t worked hard on anything surrounding this (I mostly just typed) and it’s not “my crusade.” If there wasn’t a me people would still be unhappy with the Brandnewverse. We just give them a place to talk honestly and openly about it – something they’re not allowed to do on’s own Spidey boards.

    But who has been the bully here, Wacker? The guy throwing out insults and mocking folks?

    Or the one who hasn’t been?

  663. #663 Stephen Wacker says:

    From the way you are refusing to accept an apology, this is clearly the worst thing that has ever happened to you, George. I’m sorry to hear that. in reality it’s just another guy mouthing off on a message board. Dan reacts the way you suggest all the time, but your site doesn’t do 3+ blog posts about it, so you may have missed it.

    I do love the attempt to bringing DeFalco into this though. You remind me of the guy Woody Allen embarrasses in the Marshall McLuhan scene in Annie Hall. Go tell Tom he just works for money and doesn’t really care about what he writes and see how he reacts.

    Remember just because a pitchfork carrying mob has a lot of members…doesn’t make them right.

    Again, Dan has shown a class and dignity in apologizing for what he did that you seem unable to meet…at least here– where you have to maintain appearances as the local “tough guy”. I’m sure you’re swell in the real world.

  664. #664 George Berryman says:

    “From the way you are refusing to accept an apology, this is clearly the worst thing that has ever happened to you, George. I’m sorry to hear that. in reality it’s just another guy mouthing off on a message board. Dan reacts the way you suggest all the time, but your site doesn’t do 3+ blog posts about it, so you may have missed it.”

    I don’t feel like anyone needs to apologize to me for anything, Stephen, so I don’t know whose apology I’m apparently not accepting. I wasn’t the guy who got told to eff off. I’m glad he was apologized to at least but that doesn’t have anything to do with me.

    “I do love the attempt to bringing DeFalco into this though. You remind me of the guy Woody Allen embarrasses in the Marshall McLuhan scene in Annie Hall. Go tell Tom he just works for money and doesn’t really care about what he writes and see how he reacts.”

    Again – I haven’t seen anyone here say the poster who said that about Slott was in the right. He wasn’t. What he said was rude. Yet if someone had said that to Tom D. I doubt that, as mad as he might honestly have been, he wouldn’t have said “Hey go eff yourself.” Because he acts like a pro. Doesn’t even have to be Tom D., either. I could’ve thrown out more names there but he actually faced something similar to this recently and came out looking *a lot* better than Dan did because of the way he addressed it.

    “Remember just because a pitchfork carrying mob has a lot of members…doesn’t make them right.”

    Didn’t a mob go after Freddy Krueger, too… ? I’m not trying to make the same backhanded analogy that you are – just pointing out that sometimes a mob can apparently be right.

    “Again, Dan has shown a class and dignity in apologizing for what he did that you seem unable to meet…at least here– where you have to maintain appearances as the local “tough guy”. I’m sure you’re swell in the real world.”

    Pardon me if I don’t take a shot at my “class and dignity” from a guy who has thrown out ‘pearl clutchers’ here like a broken record and who’s tossed around insults like a poo-flinging spider-monkey.

  665. #665 Stephen Wacker says:

    Oh, okay. You win.

  666. #666 herbiepopnecker says:

    And finally, nobody is posting at this topic….

    Oh, wait…..oh, dang it!!!!!

  667. #667 Theory says:

    Damn Wacker you just got schooled

  668. #668 Two-Bit Specialist says:

    Finally, someone broke that “666 comments.” That was just unseemly.

  669. #669 Ebony Leopard says:

    I’ve had interactions with Slott and Wacker online where this very thing about being professional was brought up to them on CBR. Frankly, their behavior on those forums and how they reply to people on the forums has turned me off from Spider-Man more than the writing and story direction has. At one point I was told because I was using a screen name how valid could my opinion be since I was just some unknown guy online making comments. SO, in the following post, I revealed my real name to them and asked him if my opinion was now valid since I was using my real name when giving them.

    In general, the guys are just unprofessional when interacting with fans who don’t agree with them and probably would do better to avoid fan-based web forums all together if they’re going to have their feelings hurt so easily.