Berryman Vs Captain America: Civil War (Spider-Centric!)

SpideyMU1Captain America: Civil War is… energetic. There is so much going on that the film rarely takes a breath as it moves from one moment to the next. And I could talk all about Cap, Bucky, Tony, Rhodey, Sam, Natasha, Wanda, Vizh, Clint, Scott, Sharon (and Peggy!) and T’Challa – and I will at the end. But what you really want to know is “But what about Spidey?”

Well, let’s unpack that.

Spoilers below the fold…

So now we finally see Tom Holland and Marisa Tomei playing roles near and dear to our hearts, and which will be very important to the Marvel Cinematic Universe – and us – from here on out. Going into this movie I had some heavy concerns. I’ll list them off and discuss them.

1.) Is Marvel going for too young of a Spider-Man?

Yes, they are. It’s become a fetish for Marvel. But in the end it might be okay. Each cinematic iteration of Spider-Man has started in high school and later matured. The MCU Spidey is no different. Well – not different in that he starts out in high school but perhaps different in how much he’ll be allowed to mature. We’ll have to wait and see for answers on that. But why does it stand out so much more now? Because Tom Holland is almost a decade younger than the Spider-actors preceding him when they took up the part of Spidey. When Tobey became the first big screen Spider-Man, he was 27 years old. Andrew Garfield, who took over for the Marc Webb reboot films which would become an uncompleted trilogy, was 29 when he swung into movies. Tom Holland, however, is 19 – and seems even younger than that onscreen.

This Spider-Man is meant to be around fifteen years old. On that level, they succeeded. Holland is completely believable as a fifteen-year old Peter Parker. My preference is, of course, for a college-age Spider-Man. I understand why Kevin Feiege and Marvel Studios went with a ‘young’ Spider-Man. They didn’t have anyone ‘young.’ But they could have still had a ‘young’ Spidey if Peter was in college. I do admit to a bias in that I have always viewed the Stan Lee/John Romita years as the definitive foundation for Spider-Man, far more than the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko years.

2.) Is Aunt May too young?

The Spider-Man status quo for the MCU seems to be largely influenced from the now-defunct Ultimate line (the usurper continuity that failed to usurp after a decade and a half) and that’s most evident in Aunt May, who is far younger than we’ve ever seen her onscreen. In full disclosure, I am a fan of Marisa Tomei’s. I always have been. She is a wonderful actress who has always had a natural presence that seems effortless. And for the Ultimate Aunt May (i.e. younger and not frail) she is perfectly cast. But she is distractingly hot here. When they announced that Marisa Tomei had been cast, I was perfectly fine with it – and make no mistake, I still am. But they went down a different road than I expected with her. I thought perhaps they would make her seem like an attractive middle-aged woman who seems like she has spent years struggling to raise her nephew, always putting his needs and his education above herself – like a mother would. But what we got seemed more like a popular hot mom who goes out partying two or three times a week – even to the point of Tony Stark seemingly flirting with her. For me, that’s a misfire. Do not mistake my meaning. I am still looking forward to seeing what she brings to the new MCU Spider-Man films. I just hope she’s written right in Spider-Man: Homecoming.

3.) Does Tony Stark get all the credit for what should be Peter’s achievements?

This was my greatest fear for this movie and also for the MCU Spider-films in general. Some of you may remember the furor that arose when Sam Raimi announced that Spider-Man would have organic webshooters in the first Sony movie because it didn’t make sense for a teenager to come up with inventions on a level of something that 3M would make. While I enjoyed the first two Raimi Spidey films, this always stuck in my craw. Peter Parker is a genius. When it comes to science, he’s a natural. He’s smart enough to have impressed Reed Richards and Tony Stark in the past – and even Otto Octavius. To take away from that lessens the character and does him no service. Every time Spideydude mentions that thrice-damned Iron Spider costume, I get physically ill.

I was relieved with how Stark’s involvement in Peter’s costumes and gear played out, for the most part. Spider-Man made his own webshooters, made his first costume… and that’s as it should be. It’s part of what gets Stark interested in him, part of what gets him on Stark’s radar. Peter explaining that he wanted to help people made me feel warm inside, and proud. I do not like that Stark makes the final costume for Peter. Not one bit. And I’m concerned about Stark being in the first stand-alone MCU Spidey film. It’s enough that the introduction has been made. It’s time to let Spider-Man be his own man in the MCU and I pray Marvel does not keep him in Stark’s shadow; this is foreshadowed in the post-credits scene where some sort of signal pops up from Peter’s Stark-manufactured webshooters. We’ll have to wait and see but we need less of Stark’s arrogance in MCU Spider-Man and more of Peter’s inventiveness and optimism. It worked for the Civil War movie but it’s time to move away from it now.

SFNFX-34.) Is Marvel going to make the same mistake as the current comics and make Peter less of a badass?

Spider-Man is a hero who often doesn’t even realize just how much of a badass he is. He has defeated superior threats all through his career, from taking down the X-Men multiple times to stopping characters like Juggernaut and Firelord, who sometimes demand the concentration of whole teams to defeat. Unfortunately, today’s Marvel Comics ignore that in favor of building up new characters like Silk or Spider-Gwen at Spidey’s expense, or while looking for an excuse to work Avengers into Spider-Man comics for the billionth time. We’re in a time in Spider-History where he sometimes has to be saved in his own damn book.

I am happy to say that the MCU Spidey is much more of a badass – as is proper – even while untrained and undisciplined. Here he holds his own against Captain America! Cap is used to fighting more powerful characters and has more experience than Peter, and in the end manages to stop the fight by basically putting Spider-Man in a tight spot. But Spidey’s prowess is considerable enough to impress Steve Rogers here.

Spidey also goes toe to toe against Giant-Man, Falcon and Winter Soldier and, for the most part, winds up giving better than he got. His inexperience puts him at a disadvantage but everyone in the fight recognizes Peter as a game-changer. On that front – well done, Marvel. Well done indeed! Spidey can only get better from here on out!

5.) Will the writers find the right voice for Spider-Man… or Peter?

Yes and no. Peter’s talk with Stark really sells Tom Holland as Peter Parker. 100%. He is believable and he quickly becomes someone you want to pull for. Someone you want to like and cheer on. But the writers drop the ball by and large for his Spider-dialogue. During the massive airport fight, Ant-Man has funnier quips than Spidey does. In fact, a lot of what fans are calling ‘quips’ from Spidey in this movie are really “OMG Dude!” observations and reactions. It was funny, though, to see Spidey yell “You’re under arrest!” when Falcon gets the upperhand on him when Spidey goes after Bucky. Heh!

But the biggest fumble came when Spidey yells “Holy Shit!” Because no. This is Spider-Man – not Wolverine, not Deadpool, not Tony Stark. That was a major screw-up and I pray Kevin Feige doesn’t let that kind of crap slip through again. Really, Marvel Studios? You’re better than that.

On a related side-note… why does Ant-Man wind up having funnier lines? Because this all feels like Civil War was written and then rearranged when the Sony deal came through. Originally, Ant-Man was meant to be the comic relief. Spidey’s role, and his lines, feel tacked on. As evidence, I point to how much Marvel sold Chadwick Boseman and T’Challa for Civil War to fans a long, long time before the Sony deal happened. T’Challa was meant to have a much bigger part in this movie.

And since we’ve covered Spidey, let’s talk about the movie as a whole and how the other MCU characters came through. I like that neither side’s argument was presented as wrong or right; the real problems came with overzealousness, mostly from Thunderbolt Ross and later from Stark. I also liked that Cap came across as an anti-globalist here. In the end, he made the better argument.

bpcw1Everything with T’Challa here felt rushed and haphazard, which irked me. Folks, I am a big Black Panther fan and I really look forward to his solo movie. But his MCU entrance wasn’t as fleshed out as it needed to be. We didn’t even get a scene with Black Panther and Martin Freeman’s Everett Ross! How the Hell does that happen?! I imagine it was before the Sony deal went through and Spider-Man was added in. But what we did see of Chadwick Boseman’s T’Challa was fun and I really like him as Black Panther. A lot. I just wanted to see more.

As a big Vision & Wanda (or more correctly, Vision with Wanda) fan, I also really liked the interaction and closeness Wanda and Vision had. I also loved how they spent more time showing Vision’s phasing and density powers here, and how he wrestled with himself after Rhodey’s injury.

This week we learned Marvel is getting closer to a Black Widow solo movie, and that pleases me. Natasha is such a badass, and unlike Tony can readily admit when she’s done something wrong. I also love that no matter what movie Natasha winds up in, she always kicks as much (if not more!) ass than just about anyone else.

Marvel Studios learned from one of Marvel Comics’ greatest Civil War missteps: it didn’t kill anyone. Rhody’s injury is a fill-in for the “it’s out of control now” moment of Civil War, which was Bill Foster’s death at the hands of a Thor clone. The Marvel movies don’t get to gloss over such a moment with bad storytelling the way Marvel did at the end of the Siege storyline. The studio seemed to know that once you go that far there should be no coming back for a lot of people involved. Marvel Comics got away with such ridiculously bad out-of-character moments in a way that Marvel movies just can’t. It wouldn’t work.

Overall, Captain America: Civil War is fun, but not as enjoyable as Captain America: Winter Soldier – a film that was much tighter and focused. There was just too much shoehorned into this one, leaving us wanting more in some cases and distracted by others. In terms of box office, adding Spidey in will reap benefits for this movie but in the end the overall story suffers some by the way they jammed Peter in.

But at the end of the day? Spidey is home in the MCU, and that’s a win for everyone, even if I still have some concerns about how he will be handled going forward. Any way you slice it, Spider-Man is in a much better place now, cinematically speaking.


We’re recording our Captain America: Civil War reviews tonight for the podcast. Not sure when Brad will have that posted but be on the lookout!

–George Berryman!

(30) Comments

  1. Spider-Dad

    Nice job George. I agree that going too young is a bit confusing to folks who are familiar with the Tobey/Andrew Peter Parker's. However, I think it worked here for the Civil War story. As for Aunt May, I am like you that I enjoy Marisa Tormei as an actress, but is miscast as Aunt May. The Tony Stark interference did not bother me in Civil War, but I can see where you are coming from. I did enjoy he made the webshooters and webbing, which was a major problem I had with the Rami/Webb versions. For me, I was relieved his costume was Stark tech. I was not a fan of this costume, so I am hoping the next movie will be more in line with ASM#2, and Peter would get credit for improving the cartoonish version shown here. I am also concerned that Spider-Man will not be represented right with his power set and be made the joke, instead of cracking jokes. Erik in post #3 nails it that the best comment was Spidey's joke on Captain America's shield. Spot on. As for him saying "shit", it did not bother me. It was obvious they went for easy humor, and it resonated in the crowd I saw the movie with. For me, I nice introduction. They did not completely botch it and I have hope for a rebooted series. I found it ironic that it was Tony Stark that commented that Peter needed a reboot when commenting on his onesie. Let's hope the third version is spot on.

  2. Scott

    @27 The "it's 2016" argument doesn't hold water for me. Just because of the calendar year, and the fact that teenagers today are more likely to swear when "amazed" (I don't think that's a 2016 thing, teenagers have always been more likely to swear when "amazed") doesn't mean he should. It's not a huge deal, but it's an annoyance, he's Peter Parker, he's better than that. Also, calling your Aunt by just her first name is very unusual to me, I couldn't imagine calling any of my Aunts by their first name, even today. So, maybe not wrong, but definitely weird, at least to me. The Sam Raimi films especially 1 and 2, they have a sort of timeless feel to them. The Amazing films are very much 2012-2014ish. They won't age so well. I'd like the new Spidey to age well, and worrying about fitting him in with the current year/trend is a surefire way to ensure in ten years we'll look back and cringe a bit, even if the movies are good. On a side note, just want to say what everybody else seems to be saying, love Tom Holland in his short time as Peter/Spidey, already way ahead of Garfield. Admittedly, Garfield never got a good movie, so I'm sure that tarnishes his legacy a bit. I'm not so sure Holland's solo film is a guaranteed hit, but I'm just being cautious, looking at the last decade of Spidey solo films, can you blame me?

  3. Erik

    I think you guys are showing your age. 2016 Peter can say shit and call his aunt by her first name. It doesn't do anything detrimental to his character. Shouting "dude, you have a metal arm!" in a sort of prepubescent Jeff Spicolli intonation does.

  4. xonathan

    The spider signal might be a summoning signal. Peter is struggling to turn it off and along its circumference there are icons and one of them is flashing blue. Let's hope not

  5. Mac and Cheese Gargan

    Nice review. I'll hold off my judgement on Stark's involvement until after Homecoming, but for the purposes of Civil War I didn't have an issue. Stark creating a more technologically advanced suit is far more believable than Peter becoming a sewing master and creating a perfect fitting suit for himself. As long as the "spider signal" isn't really an Avengers summoning device I have no issue with that either. I thought Holland killed it as Parker, and while his quips didn't always land, his punches did as I thought this was the best fighting Spider-Man yet If Marvel plays it right we could see the maturation and growth of MCU Peter Parker before our eyes, which could be an amazing thing.

  6. George Berryman - Post author

    @23 - I think he does say Aunt May once <i>but</i> not to <i>her.</I> He doesn't call her that directly. I think he was saying it to Stark. I know Stark actually uses the phrase "Aunt May" after the airport fight.

  7. hornacek

    I thought he called her "Aunt May" a few times when he was talking to Tony and she wasn't there, like "Don't tell Aunt May!" I didn't notice any other "May"s when he talked to her, just that one post-credits one.

  8. George Berryman - Post author

    @21 - <i>"Is it just me or did Peter call Aunt May “May” in the post-credits scene? If so I didn’t like that, he should be calling her “Aunt May” at all times. Teenager Peter would not be calling her “May”.</i>" I saw it a second time this afternoon. He never calls her Aunt May. He calls her May when he enters the apartment and then again in the post-credits scene. We talked about how it <i>should</i> be "Aunt May" on the podcast Brad posted last night.

  9. hornacek

    Of course George is a fan of Marissa Tomei. She likes bald men. I think Spidey saying "Holy shit!" would have worked if after he had said it he had covered his mouth with his hands and apologized. I can accept Peter being amazed by something and just saying the first thing that comes to him, but he is the type of person who would immediately apologize for using that type of language. Is it just me or did Peter call Aunt May "May" in the post-credits scene? If so I didn't like that, he should be calling her "Aunt May" at all times. Teenager Peter would not be calling her "May".

  10. hornacek

    @17 - I don't have a reply to your comment, just wanted to say that I love your username. I hope you haunt -er- respond to a lot of George and Zach's comments in the future.

  11. Al

    @#18: not pried loose, but time rolls editors and writers in and out if you give it enough time. Jim Shooter was exceptionally good at his job and he was shuffled out eventually. Time will have them moved like it has their predecessors and frankly there is enough scandal under their regimes (and enough of it to be public), though not perpetrated by them personally, that it's not unimaginable that changes will happen, especially given their reputation as hostile and antagonistic towards the fans.

  12. Sir Jig-A-Lot

    @16 Al - I think those currently in charge of Marvel publishing &amp; their "head" writers such as Slott &amp; Bendis will not be pried loose from where they are. There's too much of a fat paycheck involved for them. Do you really think creatures like Quesada, Breevort or Slott know how to do anything else this late in their lives? It would take something akin to the sexual harassment scandal (like the one Eddie Berganza over at DC is having right now) leaking out to the public for any of them to be deposed.

  13. Ghost of Ben Reilly

    George, I think what we're seeing here is the setup of a rift between Tony and Peter as in the original pre-Civil War comics storyline. Stark seems like a benefactor but is really trying to establish control. The "gift" comes with strings attached in the form of monitoring of Spidey's activities. Peter created his own web shooters and the web formula. His scientific genius is evident. Stark gave him a cool new gadget, one that Peter likely would have come up with on his own, eventually. I don't think it diminishes Peter's gifts. It does set up future conflict and will lead to Peter's development and independence as a hero.

  14. Al

    @#9: I agree it resembles his USM SHIELD tech although Mayday Parker’s spider signal (she rarely used it) was also emitted from her webshooter. At the end of the day though it shone a red light with Spider-Man’s face on it so I think that should count as some version of the signal. I hope it does become a belt feature though rather than making his web shooters do anything beyond shooting webbing or spider tracers (hopefully we’ll get those soon too). @#13: Dude...c’mon. He’s not coming back? We’ve had basically one voice for the character since OMD with an editorial regime who’s not shifted since then. Hal Jordan, Barry Allan, the pre-crisis uber God Superman and the pos-Crisis married to Lois Lane Superman have come back. Is it REALLY that unlikely that at some point in time sooner or later the legit Spider-Man will make his return when the powers in charge change. I mean MORE writers at Marvel seem at best indifferent/opposed to the pre-OMD status quo of the character than seem supportive of what they’ve done since then. OMD has such a toxic history it’s all but guaranteed to be reversed in some way sooner or later and this isn’t even mentioning how there are at least 20 years worth of fans who’re obviously opposed to what’s been happening waiting to break into the industry. Hell Ta-Nahesi Coates is a very high profile writer who’s working for Marvel now and has spoken very publically of his distaste for OMD and favouring of the pre-OMD way of things.

  15. pseudomucho

    Oh! I also wanted to say if a child prodigy like Peter Parker is still taking Algebra in his first/second year of high school, then public school has failed us. Either that, or the Algebra he's taking is extremely hard, hence the need for him to mention that he aced it.

  16. pseudomucho

    Although they did show Peter acting competently and being capable of handling his own against members of The Avengers, I still think they didn't make him powerful enough. It seemed every five seconds, he was getting swatted away or thrown. And Captain America, as strong and experienced as he is, shouldn't be able to throw a firmly planted Spider-Man around! I don't disagree with the concept of Cap beating Peter with strategy, as he does in the movie, but I don't think he should be able to muscle him around so easily. I was initially bothered by having him be so winded at the end of the fight, but this is a very inexperienced Spidey, so I guess it was warranted. I'd agree Spider-Man was too easily swayed to fight alongside Tony, especially against a living legend like Captain America. I have mixed feelings about having Tony make Peter's final costume and Spider-Signal. I, however, loved the dilating lenses and how they serve the purpose of focusing his eye sight as his spider-sense went off. Costume looked great, but kinda fake and cartoony, especially when Peter's mask is slightly taken off.

  17. Sir Jig-A-Lot

    Great article, George! Though insofar as the comics, I'd say the Ultimate line (maybe not so)secretly won out. They've made Miles the main Spider-Man since the reboot &amp; ported all of Peter's tropes (&amp; NYC) over to him simply because he is Bendis' favourite pet. They've relegated a not so responsible Parker to being Stark-lite. They won't put him on business success par with Tony either as Iron Man is Bendis' latest fetish project to (eventually) ruin. Peter Parker is stuck between a writer &amp; an editorial mandate yet again. Let's face it: it's been 9 years since OMD &amp; 6 since OMIT. The Spider-Man we grew up on is gone &amp; not coming back. Not while the Perlmutter regime &amp; his sycophants &amp; toadies are there. The MCU Spidey (&amp; Garfield's look &amp; portrayal in ASM 2) are all we have left of days gone by/bye. As for T'Challa, I think his inclusion in Civil War was just meant to be an intro &amp; showcase to whet our appetites for his solo movie helmed by Coogling. I agree that we're one step closer to a Widow movie after CW (&amp; the divorce from Perlmutter). She crushed it again with this outing. The fight in the Lagos marketplace with Crossbones &amp; Co as well as brilliant characterization from the film makers. We've finally got ourselves a perfect mainstream superhero trilogy with the Cap movies. Hopefully X-Men Apocalypse will do the same for Fox &amp; close out strong.

  18. jason maddox

    this is probably nitpicking but one of the things that Spidey said that I didnt care for was referring to the Empire Strikes Back as " that really old movie". first of all he asked if they had seen it as if is some obscure art film or something. if you ask someone if they have seen ESB you might as well be asking them if they know what a movie is. secondly, kids Peters age are very familiar with the Star Wars movies. heck my own kids, who are much younger than Pete know about these films and I dont think they even realize they ARE old movies.

  19. George Berryman - Post author

    @8 - <i>"taught vision came across as a bit obsessive about wanda. didn’t feel the warm’t."</i> Well he was also under orders to keep her there.

  20. George Berryman - Post author

    @1 - <i>"The beam that pops up at the end is the Spider Signal. It’s been part of Spider-Man’s arsenal (with varying regularity) ever since the Ditko days."</i> I know what the Spider-Signal is but this was coming out of his webshooter, not his waist. It made me think of the asinine SHIELD communicator he has in the current cartoon. I didn't get Spider-Signal from this thing.

  21. dub

    liked his nievity in the air port scene but take the point about 'omg dude'. rudd is good at that sort of comedy in what ever movie, would be a waste not to use it and no shame being out shined by someone better. worry about stark being some sort of mentor to peter. peter's story is a difficult road with struggle. Not having a billionaire metor looking out for him. But that story can still develop so see how it goes. the defying the laws of phyics line got a few giggles around were i was sitting. Good point about the type of gags they should be going for. taught vision came across as a bit obsessive about wanda. didn't feel the warm't. there was a shot were the vision looked guilty or remorseful for the friendly fire incident, taught that was strong but was devalued when we see roddy doing rehab.

  22. jvl1031

    For the most part, I liked Spider-Man and Peter Parker's portrayal in the film, even more so than Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield's take on the character. However, there is one thing that bothered me about Tom Holland's version, and that's how much he seemed to be under Tony Stark's thumb. Peter Parker, when he's written well, is his own man and tries to forge his own destiny through his own choices. Peter's actions in Captain America: Civil War seemed to be completely dictated by Tony. When the big airport battle came around, I couldn't tell how much of Peter's rhetoric came from Peter's perspective and how much came from Tony's. Now, this does make sense within the context of the film given Peter's youth and inexperience, especially compared to the comic Civil War storyline where adult Peter played an unthinking follower on both sides of the conflict. I'm hoping Peter will branch off on his own path in Homecoming, but the fact that Tony will appear in that film makes me nervous. As for Aunt May, it was off-putting for me to find her so attractive, but I did like Marisa Tomei's performance. I'm just disappointed the MCU will still be going with the "Aunt May doesn't know Peter is Spider-Man" route because I was hoping the next set of Spider-Man films would do away with that plot point and have Aunt May clearly state she knows Peter's secret identity.

  23. Al

    George, I dunno if your gonna talk about this on the podcast or not, but what about Peter's need to control his 'senses' and his explanation of his motivations?

  24. Al

    The beam that pops up at the end is the Spider Signal. It’s been part of Spider-Man’s arsenal (with varying regularity) ever since the Ditko days. In brief, I loved the movie, I approved of Spider-Man’s role but I need to see more to form a stronger opinion. There were things I didn’t like (sensory overload what?) which might not be things to worry about in the long term and there were other things which were nitpicks. I too felt May was too young even if this was USM Aunt May. I felt the quippage was merely okay but showed potential to improve. I guess yeah Ant-Man having the quips was a problem but that’s who Ant-Man in the MCU was so they couldn’t have them both doing it I guess. When going solo here’s hoping Spider-Man will be more quippy. And yeah it’s likely also to do with Spider-Man being added in after the fact to Civil war. The swearing bothered me too. I know it’s not uncommon for most modern teenagers but...c’mon. Spidey is supposed to be maybe not Clark kent or Steve Rogers levels of wholesome but wholesome nevertheless. I want this Spider-Man to mature past High school, but I suspect he will not. At least not unless he’s going to continue popping up in other MCu movies like RDJ is. I have a feeling though they are gonna go Miles Morales once we’ve covered 3 Spidey solo-films with Peter Parker. If so I hope they do not kill Peter but just retire him somehow. As for the foundation of To me the foundation is the Stan Lee run as a whole, Ditko and Romita both are important to that. Personally, I think that the stories were actually better under Ditko because we got a new villain every issue, but I prefer Peter’s life status quo beyond High school...and college in fact. But it’s like talking about whether Book 2 Harry Potter is better than book 5 harry potter. Different eras in the life of the same character.

  25. George Berryman - Post author

    @1 - Yeah that was a typo. Thanks, Hobo-Goblin! I've corrected it. @1 & @3 - I know I'll be in the minority on the whole "Holy Shit!" thing being wildly out of character and inappropriate. But for me... yeah, to say I didn't care for it is putting it mildly. If I wanna hear language like that I'll listen to myself on the podcast. Heh! :cool:

  26. Erik

    Yeah, it's funny because Spidey yelling "holy shit" is one of the only things about him that didn't bother me in this movie. It wouldn't have been appropriate for 616 Spidey when he was a teenager but this guy is a teenager in 2016. "Good kids" in 2016 will say shit like it's nothing. Hell, Aunt May is young enough to curse in this version. From the moment I heard "whoa, you've got a metal arm!" in the trailer I had a terrible sinking feeling about this version of Spidey and it proved fully warranted. The mentality is exactly what I thought it would be if Spider-Man ever appeared in Avengers movies: he "quips" during battles, so obviously he's comic relief. That means every single time he appears he has to be "funny," which mostly results in a bunch of forced comments that aren't funny at all. The comment directed *at* him was ten times funnier than anything he said himself, regarding how much he talks, and it was so funny to me specifically because I kept thinking "god I wish this guy would just shut up." As a fan of the character I shouldn't be thinking that when he is making jokes. I can't emphasize this enough, Spider-Man isn't a comic relief character. He's supposed to be a smartass - emphasis on the "smart," but this movie wants to put it on the "ass." "Dude, you have a metal arm!" isn't clever. He should be clever. The one remark I really did like was his joke about Cap's shield -- THAT was a Spider-Man comment. It actually observes something about the situation and and makes a little jab at his opponent in the process, instead of just suggesting that he's funny because he doesn't take the situation seriously like most of his "jokes." The Spectacular TV series (RIP) got this so right. I wish I could make it mandatory viewing for everyone involved in any Spidey production.

  27. Hobo-Goblin

    *Do, I DO think hard language needs to be judiciously applied. That's what I meant! I guess you're not the only one who can mistype, Berryman!

  28. Hobo-Goblin

    "Overall, Captain America: Civil War is fun, but not as enjoyable as Captain America: Civil War" I assume you meant "Winter Soldier" there. I agree with you on a lot of points, but I think the "Holy s**t!" from Spidey was appropriate to the situation. He's still a kid, wont to use such language, and in a situation that is completely beyond him. Heck, EVERYONE ELSE on the battlefield seemed to have a similar reaction to Giant-Man, but the kid's going to be the one to verbally express it if anyone. I don't think hard language needs to be judiciously applied in movies, and this moment rang true to me.

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