Marvel just sent me this press release saying that “One Moment in Time” changes everything. What do you all think of the image? What are those Dr. Strange looking lights in the top of the picture? HMMMM, could the deal with the devil be done? Comment below or discuss it on this message board thread.
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #641 (JUN100542)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #641 QUESADA VARIANT (JUN100543)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #641 QUESADA SKETCH VARIANT (JUN100544)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #641 WOMEN OF MARVEL VARIANT (JUN100545)
Written by JOE QUESADA
Penciled by PAOLO MANUEL RIVERA & JOE QUESADA
Cover by PAOLO MANUEL RIVERA
Spidey Sunday Feature by STAN LEE & MARCOS MARTIN
Variant Cover by JOE QUESADA
Sketch Variant by JOE QUESADA
Women of Marvel Frame Variant by JOHN TYLER CHRISTOPHER
Rated A …$3.99
FOC—8/12/10, On-Sale—9/1/10
August 10th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
I think it’s a trick.
August 10th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
this seems a lot like a fan series i read a while back written by a talented kevin cushing
August 10th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Darn it, I was just coming to the front page to put this up!
August 10th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
Does it retcon Sins Past, OMD, and stay crunchy, even in milk?
August 10th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Its either a red herring or they remeber their marriage but decide its best to stay friends.
August 10th, 2010 at 8:26 pm
I’m guessing that image refers to Pete/MJ’s ceremony that wiped everyone’s mind of Spidey’s secret identity. There’s no way the marriage is coming back.
August 10th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Looks like crap.
August 10th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
The preview of the next story line after OMIT showed Peter needing money to go on a date with Carlie.
August 10th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Why are we complaining, they have full fill their promise, spidey has not been the same after OMD and will not be the same after this, it is just that they never promised that we would like it after their awful decisions. I have read internet versions since OMD and I have not buy one issue as none of them has been worted. I even miss maximum clonage… for god seak…
August 10th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
One Omit In Time (TM) is just the latest of a long line of crappy Spider-Man stories forced upon this once-great character. It’s amazing how bad Marvel has treated their flagship character over the last 15 years or so, always trying to “reinvent” a character that was great and never needed to be revamped or reinvented.
August 10th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
Anybody else think the biggest news here is that Marvel’s sending Brad press releases now? Freakin’ awesome, dude!
@Spiderpool279 – nice!
August 10th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
@ Kevin -You have a point? Does anyone subscribed to Marvel.com get these? Or are they sending them specificially to Brad
If so- AWESOME!
- ANd it DOES seem a lot like something a certain masterful writer wrote…
August 10th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
It’s Quesada doubling down on Fail. All we’re left to wonder about is what he’ll screw up next with the third part of this ‘trilogy’ and then to look to the day when talented people will fix all of the damage.
August 10th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
We may be reading too much into this. We’re reading it as “One Moment in Time” (the name of the story arc) Changes Everything instead of “One Moment in Time Changes Everything.” Savvy?
August 10th, 2010 at 10:04 pm
Notice MJ is wearing the same outfit from OMD.
August 10th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
If Peter doesn’t regain his sense of responsibility again I think I may just give away all my Spidey comics
August 10th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
having lsitened to the Joe Q podcast on this site, i just dont think Marvel will be willing to change the status quo.
August 11th, 2010 at 1:05 am
I agree w/Persian. I listened to the Joe Q. podcast, and it doesn’t seem like Marvel is backing down or “ret-conning” BND at all…..
August 11th, 2010 at 3:26 am
which is a shame
August 11th, 2010 at 9:05 am
This is stupid. I was in the “pro-marriage” camp, but I don’t give a damn at this point. If the current status quo won’t be changing,why don’t they just move on and stop flashing back to the meeting with Mephisto or the day of the (cancelled) wedding. I figure any issue now,Quesada will give a story where Parker gets a 10-way with MJ,Felicia,Carlie,Deb Whitman,Liz,Betty,Gwen’s ghost,Gwen’s clone and Cissy Ironwood in a fleabag motel,while downloading porn.
August 11th, 2010 at 9:06 am
To quote Admiral Ackbar from Return of The Jedi..”It’s a Trap!!”
Yeah I hope they go back old to the old ways of the marriage,but Im not gonna hold my breath.Ill still read it nonetheless.
August 11th, 2010 at 10:14 am
My problem isn’t the end of the marriage… it’s the METHOD USED TO END IT.
August 11th, 2010 at 11:01 am
To JasonM: Don’t forget about Marcy Kane and April May.
August 11th, 2010 at 11:34 am
I agree w/ Enigma. I also agree that this is just a depiction of the ceremony used to create the “psychic blind spot”.
August 11th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Yeah, I think the cover points to the deal, though it may not necessarily have anything to do with what may lie in the book itself. I don’t see Marvel bringing back the marriage so long as Quesada, Brevoort and Whacker are at Marvel.
August 11th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
I noticed a OMIT advertisement in the newest issue of USM. MJ looks like she’s dead.
August 11th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
I’m pretty sure that this will be revealing how Spidey’s secret identity remained secret but M.J. still knew who Peter really was. I just wish Marvel would bring back the Spider-Marriage already. Seriously, it’s been three long years, and fans are still split, upset, disappointed and frustrated with the current status quo. And having a new bat-winged Hobgoblin, a new female Carnage, giving Peter a new girlfriend, and having multiple new suits for Spidey like that black-and-neon-green monstrosity doesn’t make me want to rush into reading the books. Also, I’m one of the few fans who’s more upset that the marriage WAS taken away to begin with rather than HOW (but believe me, HOW still was really, REALLY awful). First, they say that the real Peter was a clone that M.J. was married to and they left when Peter handed the Spidey mantle over to Ben. Then, they try to have M.J. die in an exploding airplane, then they bring her back by saying she was taken prisoner before the plane took off. Next, she separates from Peter to go to L.A., but JMS wisely had them reconcile and he gave the Spider-Marriage some of its best moments in his run. And then OMD/BND came along and now my favorite married couple in all of comics aren’t married because Marvel says that the marriage I grew up with, knew and loved never happened. So, they can let the Lizard eat his own son, let Spidey have a friends-with-benefits relationship with Black Cat, and have Spidey get defeated by a thrown cinder block and having an obese man fall on top of him in order to miss his wedding day, but they won’t let it stay in continuity that he and M.J. got married? Ugh.
August 11th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
No. I talked to him at ComiCon in Seattle and he said that OMD and BND will never be undone under his watch. Later, Bendis pulled me aside and said, “Sorry, man. He means it. I’ve tried.”
August 11th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Wait, Bendis tried? That’s the first I’ve heard of that.
August 11th, 2010 at 9:31 pm
What the hell does Bendis have to do with ASM? He’s doing his own book.
August 11th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Like I keep saying on this board of comments. Stan Lee should fly out to Marvel offices and fire the biggest but head whom doesn’t care what the fans want because he wants to Never Listen. In fact maybe Stan could have Queasda NEVER BE ALLOWED TO WORK IN COMICS EVER AGAIN. Which would serve Quesada right for taking Marvel to it’s lowest sales point in years, I know he brought them outta bankruptcy in 2,000 but Never EVER LISTENING TO YOUR BIGGEST CLIENTS is always a NO- NO! RIGHT?
August 11th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Queasda did not save Marvel from bankruptcy, it was the licensing of their characters that saved them ( Movies toys).
August 11th, 2010 at 10:54 pm
Bendis was probably making a joke. They’re buds. Don’t take everything so seriously.
August 12th, 2010 at 12:34 am
If they fired EIC’s for doing things that upset the fans, and making them stick, Roy Thomas would’ve been canned for giving the go ahead to kill Gwen Stacy! Heck, I still haven’t forgiven Harras for bring back Norman! Oh well, to erroneously paraphrase Quesada, “It’s comics! You don’t have to explain them!”
August 12th, 2010 at 1:23 am
One Moment In Time doesn’t change anything…Marvel was publishing crappy Spider-Man comics before OMIT, and my bet is they’ll still publish crappy comics after it.
August 12th, 2010 at 2:41 am
Man, this is sad…. not in a good way.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:50 am
Listening to Joe Q’s interview, I don’t think he’s intentionally trying to piss off Spider-Fans. Like he said, us buying comics is what keeps him employed. I don’t, however, think he realizes the extent to which Spider-Fans are pissed off because we can bitch and moan all we want, but we still keep buying the product – myself included! (I mainly keep buying in the hopes that they’ll ret-con everything!) If we really want Marvel to “get it”, we would have to speak in volumes by NOT BUYING ASM! I know this makes me a hypocrite, because pissed off as I am, I have no intentions of stopping. I just think we should all understand that if we keep buying, Joe Q will continue with the current direction, because the sales numbers tell him it’s successful!
August 12th, 2010 at 11:50 am
“we still keep buying the product”
Whose buying the product?
“we would have to speak in volumes by NOT BUYING ASM!”
Didn’t the book lose about 50% of its readers since what OMD?
“I have no intentions of stopping.”
Then you are their last 50% that is still there.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:59 am
“If they fired EIC’s for doing things that upset the fans, and making them stick, Roy Thomas would’ve been canned for giving the go ahead to kill Gwen Stacy!”
Here is the big difference, the death of Gwen Stacy was a well written story that is considered a classic. Plus it did not drive away half of the readership from the book. OMD is considered one of the worst stories ever written for a mainstream comic and that combine with the horrible writing and editorial decisions of BND drove away half of its readership.
Joe Q is doing this for his own ego, not the welfare of the character or its fans. It will eventually blow up in his face and it beginning to do it. he has embarrass himself as a writer and creator with OMD and the currant OMIT.
August 12th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
If the Internet had been around in the ’70s, the Death of Gwen Stacy would’ve been subject to the same harsh criticism as OMD, because the reason Stan Lee killed her off was because he thought Spider-man was too young to marry.
Doesn’t mean OMD was on the same level as the Death of Gwen Stacy, but the similarities of the situations are astounding.
August 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
“If the Internet had been around in the ’70s, the Death of Gwen Stacy would’ve been subject to the same harsh criticism as OMD,”
No and that’s because of strong story telling. People would have been pissed if there was an Internet back then but people would have have called it a strong story that respect the characters. OMD is nothing compared to that.
“Doesn’t mean OMD was on the same level as the Death of Gwen Stacy, but the similarities of the situations are astounding.”
There is no similarities at all between the stories.” the Death of Gwen Stacy” took the character further, OMD regressed the character to the point of alienating half its readership and it continues to bleed readers.
August 12th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
“If the Internet had been around in the ’70s, the Death of Gwen Stacy would’ve been subject to the same harsh criticism as OMD.”
No, because it was handled professionally, and with great love for the characters. You felt Peter’s pain, and he still mourns her to this day.
No, the backlash would’ve come if, immediately after her death, Peter started going to parties, getting drunk, and sleeping with every girl he met…y’know, like he does today!
August 12th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
No offense but to the people who keep buying AMazing Spider-Man, and want the marrage back….. YOUR ALL IDIOTS. EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!!!
My god, is there anyone really this stupid on any other website. Look guys i dont like what Joe Q has done but i committed to abstain from Amazing Spider-Man Comics until Quesada gave us answers to One More Day, and i have done it so successfully ive spent my time continuing to buy more things i enjoy.
Because of it, i took my mind out of Amazing and put in places i enjoy like
X-Men Forever,
Ultimate Avengers,
Marvel Adventures Spidey,
Ultimate Spider-Man,
Ghost Rider
Spider-Girl,
Spider-Man Noir
New Ultimates
Ultimate Enemy/Mystery
and whatever has Nate Grey in it. He and Spider-Man were buddies starting ASM #420, and met Peters Wife and celebrated Christmas with Aunt Anna.
And not to mention, that the people at Marvel cant undo the Peter-MJ marrage in 3 places i feel happy to have grown up in: Stan Lees newstrip, Spider-Girls World, and the Marvel VS Capcom Series.
Sorry to be so rude, i really like this website but the notion and logic you people use is ridiciolus. I mean Amazing Spider-Man sells 70000 or 90000 comics a month and possibly more after that for each issue. One More Day was horrible, you guys arent comdeming it with what you do. Your Buying it, and condoning the things Quesada wants to write without you guys opening your minds to realize it. I either check out the Trades for free from my local library or i borrow a copy of my friends issue, keep it clean and give it back to him/her. I havent really liked any Post OMD Story, ive only checked out the ones that explains what has to do with why we have Brand New Day like Harrys “Death”, The Psychic Blindspot revealed in the New Avengers, and with the Fantastic Four, what happened to the people who knew Spider-Mans Identity like Eddie Brock and Norman Osborn, and now the answers in OMIT.
Its ok to keep reading Spider-Man to be able to provide as many points as you have in your podcasts or blogs but man oh man, dont give Qesada your money in the process!!! Marvels Editor in Chief spent a long time whining and planning to undo Spider-Mans marrage, and helping him and Brevoot and Wacker, into having the funds to write more scripts of a ManChild, Unmarried Spider-Man is the last thing you want to do.
It was almost like that with the Clone Saga, and we can get the old status Quo back if we do it that way.
Its only because im watching Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood that im not mad enough to write more points about what im saying right now.
By the way, i dont know how many copies you people in charge of this website grab, but drop the numbers damn it, if you want to strength whatever arguements you have, because everytime i look into any websites like Formspring to ask TomBrevoort, Steve Wacker, or other people about Spider-Man, they tell me hes a success and its not something id currently like to be true.
August 12th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
OK, I actually cited the wrong person. It was Gerry Conway, not Stan Lee, who expressed the reasons behind the death of Gwen Stacy. He believed that Peter and Gwen were the perfect couple. He believed that either having Spidey get married or reveal his identity to her would “betray everything that Spider-man was about” (personal tragedy and anguish as root of Peter’s life as Spider-man) [taken from The 100 Greatest Marvels of All Time].
The decision was made by Conway, John Romita Sr., and Roy Thomas to kill off Gwen because they couldn’t figure out what to do with her. They couldn’t break them up because their love had been pretty well-established. They couldn’t marry them because they were afraid that Spidey would lose popularity. Nobody at Marvel wanted a married Spider-man. In truth, that was another editorial decision.[from Comic Buyer's Guide]
I find a little hard to believe for anyone to read ASM #122 and to think, “My, that was a well-written comic that pushes character progression forward,” at least not at first. Yep, there was some nerd rage going on. The difference is that Conway, Romita, and Thomas didn’t quite feel the same type of onslaught of hate as Quesada does today, or at least it wasn’t quite as apparent because there was no Internet.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
“They couldn’t marry them because they were afraid that Spidey would lose popularity.”
And Yet he remained popular with his marriage to MJ.
“I find a little hard to believe for anyone to read ASM #122 and to think, “My, that was a well-written comic that pushes character progression forward,” at least not at first. ”
That’s your opinion.
“Yep, there was some nerd rage going on.”
And yet, they did not lose half of their readers like they did with OMD/BND. You’re trying to compare Apples to Oranges.
“The difference is that Conway, Romita, and Thomas didn’t quite feel the same type of onslaught of hate as Quesada does today”
The difference is that Conway, Romita and Thomas knew how to tell a compelling story that makes sense and respects the characters and the readers. Quesada does not.
August 12th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
To Alternaverse: You have chosen to drop ASM, and that’s fine. That’s where you should have stopped. Any respect for your opinion that you expect from anyone else was erased when you went on your tirade. The fact that you decide to call everyone else “idiots” (which, I should inform you, includes Brad, the HEAD of this site, Kevin, a writer whose abilities eclipse most of Marvel’s writers, & Stella, Zack, and J.R. – who have made a point of learning EVERYTHING THEY CAN about their chosen comic interests…) simply drives home the point that you don’t deserve to be heard here – on the #1 Spider-Man website on the Internet.
To that end, kindly take your “idiotic” opinions to some other website, and leave the RESPECTFUL postings to we who are capable of such things.
August 12th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
The Spider-man Fan base Civil War still rages and I’m sure as hell proud to fight in it. OMD/BND is an utter failure. And I can prove it. “Big Time” the supposed next era for Spider-man is going in the complete and utter opposite direction of BND. A single, money lacking Peter Parker is gone, replaced by a Peter who’s going out with Carlie (oh how I despise her) and has his dream job. Despite the Web-heads best attempts at keeping him a loner the Fantastic Four and Avengers will be regulars. Also the web-heads are gone and good consistent artists are onboard. Other controversial events in Spidey history have been accepted, except possibly Sins Past. OMD/BND are still hated with a passion like I do. I stopped buying, why haven’t you?
August 12th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
@Spider-Plumber
Im not a memeber here or anything. This website is new to me, and based on all the complaining and bitching ive seen from the people who write about Quesada shit fest, it frustrates me a little and i HAVE apologized for being rude. I was actually looking for an email address so i could say im sorry for calling people idiots on this board because they do attempt to hold intelligent conversations and professional arguements.
But still, The people who continue to buy Amazing Spider-Man and go into an outburst SUCH AS the review of Amazing Spider-Man #638 are the ones doing that to themselves and acting like they have a justifiable notion that they suffered without deserving it. Look im strongly passionate and if its not you guys i insulted without realizing it, than your calling Joe Quesada an idiot or an asshole, or any of those things. You people HAVE!! Ive seen it on almost ever website pertaining to Spider-Man fandom. My outburst was me beating you guys to the punch, this time. You guys have been warned on some podcasts to stop with the flaming and insults, so dont go making me the only bad person whos thrown an insult or two on this website.
Personally i dont care if this is anyones website, i already aplogized for being rude enough to call people idiots but its true. The same people giving Joe Quesada the flack he deserves, YOU GUYS have to understand that you are the ones paying 3.99 or 4.99 for the same book they constantly complaining about. I cant believe this is what some comicbook fans are like. They use this time to debate and strongly debate what they openly oppose and by the material even though Your giving Brevoort, Whacker, and Quesada your money. Even the people at Marvel say Amazing Spider-Man is a success financially, no matter how many complaints they get.
SOME people continue to eat and eat up what you are being given and dislike as opposed to dropping something completely and enjoying something else. Something positive thats healthy for them.
So NO Spider-Plumber, i dont think i was wrong to continue going after calling people on this board idiots, HOWEVER i couldve worded that a little diplomatically and because i did not I am sorry. My opinions about the people wasting thier time believing the marrage will come back, still stands though.
August 12th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
@ Alternaverse…
Let me quote you…
“No offense but to the people who keep buying AMazing Spider-Man, and want the marrage back….. YOUR ALL IDIOTS. EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!!!
My god, is there anyone really this stupid on any other website.”
…so these are the first words you decide to spout on a website that is “new to you”…????
Yeah, ok.
Your opinion matters. About as much as your “apologies” do.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:14 pm
@Spider-Plumber
Wow quoting my words and using a deliberate smartass interpreatation, Now very original, are you?
My earlier statement is exactly as it needs to be addressed. Im not apologetic for what i said. Im just sorry that it could be interpreted to call people like those who operate this website, General idiots. I know they are not because these guys do what they like, and they spend thier free time, without earning any cash or anything, while they
contstruct things some people would get paid for otherwise. Aside from that my statement isnt aimed at everybody just everyone in a camp of complaining about something they dislike or hate while buying it.
How many times am i going to have to repeat myself before you Get it?
To clear this crap up that i said earlier, YES i was sayin to those who complain about ASM while continuing to buy it that they have this notion that Spider-Man will be married to MJ after the TRUE explainations, of One More Day, they are making an idiotic and pretenious idea. Its how I see it. And ive run across several websites and i havent been to the CrawlSpace very long, so YES i CAN consider it new. The amount of comments ive made here can even confirm that, of course i cant expect a guy like you Spider-Plumber who wants to act like a smartass, i cant expect you to look into things you should, an intelligent person would think to do so.
I ran into several websites and some of them link me to the CrawlSpace. Coincidentally some of the places ive been to bring me here, based on whos written the essays and what not. Plus ive been on message boards and witnessed almost nothing but ProMarrage VS Anti-Marrage. Some people make good points, some people talk boycotts and how it SHOULD happen but how they dont want to seperate themeselves from a title theyve been collecting for a long time. In those conversations, it wasnt about them making a struggling decision: It was them talking about all the aspects of the Run they didnt like, and how they complain about losing $4 to 5 on a comic in their subscriptons when they could just drop it but they dont. And this kind of thing isnt isolated to ONE website affilated with comics.
As for what i said “Is there anyone this stupid on any other website”
Despite that i wanted to make question more retorical, You make it sound like its intended for just anyone to answer or to be insulted by. Its NOT for everyone obviously because youdve done some proper checking on the rest of my supporting paragraph.
By the way
“Your opinion matters just as much as your apologies do”
With this statement, your not making yourself look any better. Now your just being, a downright douchebag and because of that, your starting to be hypocritical taking about respect. At least i apologized and admit i was being rude. I think youve lost your right to lecture anyone.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
The move to kill Gwen Stacy was met with howls of rage rather than praise for a well written classic. You’re using present day perceptions. Who knows how BND/OMD will be seen in twenty or thirty years?! Unless you think you can ‘explain magic’, neither do you! Also, many fans now accept and like the fact that Norman was resurrected at the end of the Clone Saga! I’m not one of them, but the book continued to lose readers! That’s why they did the ill fated Mackie/Byrne renumbering/relaunch! I can’t understand why the readers continued to stay away considering they destroyed the righteous symmetry of Amazing #122 to undo an infamously divisive storyline! I guess it serves anyone right who dares to have a sacred cow in comics!
August 13th, 2010 at 2:36 am
And 1 warning goes out to Alternaverse Spider-Fan for calling spider-plumber a “douchebag.”
A second warning goes to Alternaverse Spider-Fan for calling everyone on this website “idiots.”
And the line “Personally i dont care if this is anyones website, i already aplogized for being rude enough to call people idiots but its true. ” Should get you banned from ever posting on the front page. But it was a dick thing to say to me, but I’ll take a lump. You have one more warning before you’re banned from posting here.
Please review these rules before posting again on the front page or the message board.
http://spidermancrawlspace.com/wwwboard/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=904
August 13th, 2010 at 6:07 am
On a final note, there was nothing “smartass” about my comments or responses. I was very simply and concisely defending this site, it’s creators, and it’s members from an obvious verbal assault.
That is something I won’t apologize for, however…BD – I’m sorry if I dragged SMCS.com into the dirt a bit.
August 13th, 2010 at 6:45 am
‘The move to kill Gwen Stacy was met with howls of rage rather than praise for a well written classic.”
And yet it did not drive away half of the audience like OMD/BND did and it didn’t insult the readership with bad characterization like OMD/BND did.
“Who knows how BND/OMD will be seen in twenty or thirty years?”
Considering the fact that its been three years and people are still calling OMD one of the worst stories ever written for the book, i think we get a good indication on how the story will be perceived down the line.
“Unless you think you can ‘explain magic’, neither do you!”
Even the people who love BND thought OMD was horrible, i don’t need magic to figure out that the story was terrible.
“Also, many fans now accept and like the fact that Norman was resurrected at the end of the Clone Saga!”
The reason being is the fact that Norman’s resurrection was not only a away to salvage what was of left of the clone saga but it was the only good thing to come out of that story line. It was a way to explain the bad writing and the huge plot holes that the clone saga had.
“but the book continued to lose readers!”
Bad writing and editorial decisions does that, you can look at BND and the current Spider-Man books to see that. They are approaching the record lows that the mackie/Byrne renumbering/relaunch! was getting.
“I can’t understand why the readers continued to stay away considering they destroyed the righteous symmetry of Amazing #122 to undo an infamously divisive storyline!”
Its called staying away from bad writing and horrible editorial decisions that made no sense. Just like OMD/BND.
“I guess it serves anyone right who dares to have a sacred cow in comics!”
There is a huge difference between a sacred cow and a lame duck. Trying to compare Amazing #122 to OMD/BND is a lame duck argument that does not hold water. Amazing #122 was a well written story that respected the characters and pushed them forward, despite the fact that it upset some people. OMD/BND does nothing in those terms and regresses the characters backwards.
August 13th, 2010 at 10:56 am
@Fred – Dude, I never said ASM #112 was a bad-written story, not that OMD was a well-written one. I’m simply pointing out the fact that both had editorial decisions behind the scenes, both involved a tragedy in Peter’s life, and both had as their catalyst “Peter’s too young to marry.”
It can be very difficult to gauge the immediate fan reaction to a story published 30 years. We’ve had the benefit of seeing Peter’s growth in the years that came later.
Let’s pretend this is a “What if…” issue: “What if The Death of Gwen Stacy had been published in 2007?” That’s my thought process here.
It’s like how everyone is nowadays saying that Sins Past was pretty well-written, even though it was a terrible idea.
I’ll give you one, though. MJ’s death after the reboot was probably an instance of trying to copy the impact of The Death of Gwen Stacy that grossly backfired. You think Marvel would’ve learned from that.
August 13th, 2010 at 11:29 am
“I’m simply pointing out the fact that both had editorial decisions behind the scenes, both involved a tragedy in Peter’s life, and both had as their catalyst “Peter’s too young to marry.”
Here is the big difference, one respected the history of the character and told a compelling story and the other was so badly written that it not only disrespected the characterization, it insulted the fans who followed the book.
“It can be very difficult to gauge the immediate fan reaction to a story published 30 years. We’ve had the benefit of seeing Peter’s growth in the years that came later.”
Again, one was writing with respect to the fans and the characters, the other was written to please Joe Quesada’s ego.
“Let’s pretend this is a “What if…” issue: “What if The Death of Gwen Stacy had been published in 2007?” That’s my thought process here.”
If this was written as well as ASM #112 was, it would not received even half of the backlash OMD/BND has gotten.
“It’s like how everyone is nowadays saying that Sins Past was pretty well-written, even though it was a terrible idea.”
You know why right? Compared to the crappy storytelling of OMD, BND and OMIT, Sins Past is a masterpiece in literary writing.
August 13th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
@Fred – Can you please stop arguing for one second and just think things through a little bit? You think all I’m saying is “blah blah blah Death of Gwen Stacy sucks blah blah blah.”
Let’s pretend now that if a story (let’s NOT call it OMD for sake of making a point) had been written in which Peter and MJ were separated, but the story respected all the characterization of the last 30 years, allowed the characters to grow, and, in fact, was written by none other than Stan Lee. The year is 2007. What do you think the reaction would be?
a) “Man, that was a great story. Good thing Stan got rid of that marriage.”
b) “I want the marriage still, but Stan knows what he’s doing. This was pretty well-written.”
c) “Who does Stan Lee think he is? Why did he split Peter and MJ? This is the worst story ever.”
Honestly, I don’t know. It might have the same reaction, even with all the stipulations I outlined above, as OMD is having today. What if OMD had been written in 1973? This is all just food for thought. AGAIN, I’m not saying that The Death of Gwen Stacy sucks, or that OMD is the greatest thing ever.
August 13th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
“Can you please stop arguing for one second and just think things through a little bit? ”
I have thought about it, that’s why i say it holds no water.
“Let’s pretend now that if a story (let’s NOT call it OMD for sake of making a point) had been written in which Peter and MJ were separated, but the story respected all the characterization of the last 30 years, allowed the characters to grow, and, in fact, was written by none other than Stan Lee. The year is 2007. What do you think the reaction would be?”
You know what, the reaction would not be as bad as it is now, not even half. You know why? Stan Lee knows how to write a story and would not resort to badly put together explanations that not only insults the reader but the characters as well.
“Honestly, I don’t know. It might have the same reaction?
Nope, it would not you know why? Stan would no have ruined the integrity of the characters, especially with the whole Devil thing which goes against everything Spider man stood for. Joe Quesada not only made Peter and MJ look like idiots but made a mockery of 20 years worth of stories and character development because of his ego, not because of the integrity of theses characters.
“What if OMD had been written in 1973? ”
If it was as badly written and badly mishandled like he is now, i doubt the character would have been around today. Not in that current shape.
“AGAIN, I’m not saying that The Death of Gwen Stacy sucks, or that OMD is the greatest thing ever.”
But yet you keep trying to make comparisons to The Death of Gwen Stacy in order to make excuses on why the fans are reacting to OMD while in fact you can’t compare them at all. You keep running around in circles with a half baked argument that the fan reaction would be the same while in reality, you keep avoiding why the fans are angry in the first place, which is how badly the story of OMD/BND/OMIT were written and how disrespectful they are to the history of the character. I have told you several times that despite some angry fan reactions, “The Death of Gwen Stacy would still be considered a respectful and coherent story that respected the characters and its fans if it was written today. OMD and BND are not considered that at all and that’s why you hear the constant uproar because of it.
August 13th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
@ BD
Clearly you did not read Alternaverse Spider-Fans paragraph as he has stated that he apologized for the manner in which he wrote his outburst targeted at a particular group of fans based on how they address their preference for those who complain about what they willingly purchase knowing the outcome ahead of time.
As for what you claim to be him calling everyone on the website “idiots”, you are taking his words out of context and using it to speak for everyones individual opinion on what his website. Alternaverse has even claimed not have insulted every memeber of this website. In my opinion i do not believe you were not reading his sentences clearly and only found favor in addressing his words that you believe make you a target.
IMO, its basically what you want to believe VS what is established in the comments on this board.
He even claimed that he shouldnt have called those people idiots, he COULD HAVE and SHOULD HAVE have addressed his comments in a more mature and respectable context.
The only people who deserve a warning are those who continue to pursue a non-progressive arguement. I am just tossing in my two cents here seeing as how these comments are taking up space more than any other on this post Its long enough to draw attention other than the initial people involved.
Not that i want to write more but i have an occasion to get to Good Bye!
@ Spider-Plug
I read the last sentence of your recent comment, and it DOES sound rude. At one point you were making a constuctive defense for the groups of fans on this website, however where you should have stopped and where i have lost respect for you is right at “Your opinion matters just as much as your apologies do”.
If Alternaverse Spider-Fan was willing to clarify statements you spoke out against, and admit that he himself may have been going out of line, then all you needed to do was accept the apology and end the matter. Maybe even have the comments you consider abusive, (if they are considered 100% to so) deleted.
August 13th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
@Fred – “blah blah blah The Death of Gwen Stacy and OMD are the same thing blah blah blah”
I’m not making any excuses for OMD. I noticed one day Conway’s statements and immediately thought on Quesada’s argument.
All I was asking was for you to think. THINK. I’m not out to prove anything. You think I am, but you are wrong.
“But yet you keep trying to make comparisons to The Death of Gwen Stacy in order to make excuses on why the fans are reacting to OMD while in fact you can’t compare them at all. You keep running around in circles with a half baked argument that the fan reaction would be the same while in reality, you keep avoiding why the fans are angry in the first place, which is how badly the story of OMD/BND/OMIT were written and how disrespectful they are to the history of the character. I have told you several times that despite some angry fan reactions, “The Death of Gwen Stacy would still be considered a respectful and coherent story that respected the characters and its fans if it was written today. OMD and BND are not considered that at all and that’s why you hear the constant uproar because of it.”
Dude, calm down. You are preaching to the choir. How can I make it clearer to you?
I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE ANYTHING.
I AM POINTING OUT THE SIMILARITIES IN BOTH SITUATIONS.
ULTIMATELY, GWEN’S DEATH IS A CLASSIC.
OMD IS NOT!
Ugh.
August 13th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
“I’m not making any excuses for OMD. I noticed one day Conway’s statements and immediately thought on Quesada’s argument.”
No, you’re trying to compare the fan outrage of what was done with “what OMD is going thought today and trying to say that if there was an Internet back then the fan outrage would be just as apparent as the outrage of what Quessada has done and i’m saying that its not and can’t be compared. Your quote:
“If the Internet had been around in the ’70s, the Death of Gwen Stacy would’ve been subject to the same harsh criticism as OMD, because the reason Stan Lee killed her off was because he thought Spider-man was too young to marry.”
And i told you several times the big differences between “The Death of Gwen Stacy and OMD is storytelling and respect for the characters. You’re the one running around in circles with the straw man argument and its not working. Especially when you have not addressed what i have said. You throwing a fit is not a counter argument, just someone who can’t defend their position.
“Dude, calm down. You are preaching to the choir. How can I make it clearer to you?”
Dude, I’m very calm and able to defend my position. You’re the one writing in caps and throwing fits because you can’t defend yours. And whose choir I’m preaching to?
“I AM POINTING OUT THE SIMILARITIES IN BOTH SITUATIONS.”
And i’m pointing out the differences. i said it several times and in detail, something again you do not want to address other than throw a temper tantrum because its apparent that you can’t counter it. Writing in caps does not help your position on anything, it only shows that you’re incapable to address my counter argument.
“Ugh.”
I’m not the one who can’t hold an argument. Especially when you have not addressed a thing i have said in respect of countering your argument, which means you know you don’t have one.
Are you going to addressed what i told you or are you keep running around in circles to keep up the straw man argument because you can’t counter what i have said to you?
The person who has a problem here is you.
August 13th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
@Spider-Pumbler
Sorry about that frome earlier. there was a typo in my comment from hours ago.
It was supposed to be written as *You should have stopped BEFORE you made the statement “your opinions matter just as much as your apologies do”
August 13th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
If I recall correctly Gwen Stacy was killed off mainly to reenforce the fact Spider-man is a tragic character. Look back and you’ll see it’s true. Now to the people that keep arguing between each other, I have to ask. Are you on the same side? Answer me that. You are comparing the controversial yet classic The Night Gwen Stacy Died to the still controversial/dreaded One More Day/Brand New Day era. Let’s compare and contrast. Yes both are controversial right from the start. But The Night Gwen Stacy Died is considered a massive turning point in comic history. It was in fact a indicator that the Silver Age had ended, replaced by the darker, grittier Bronze Age. The story was that ground breaking because it was well written. OMD/BND… well how should I put it… sucks hard? One man’s belief that a single Peter/Spider-man was better completely uprooted a well established and popular marriage. The fact the marriage was “erased” was enough to piss me off, the way it was “erased” made it so much worse. There was a reason JMS wanted his name no where near OMD when it was printed. He didn’t want to do with it at all. It was Joe’s idea and his idea alone. BND was suppose to heal the wounds but all we got was salt. The Peter Parker we now was replaced by…well you guys know, I just want to say it. It was argued that he’s just like the unmarried Spider-man of the Silver Age. It’s a lie. Read the classics. They’re nothing alike. I have to get back to my girlfriend. Tear into me and not my beliefs if you like. It’ll only prove I’m a better man.
August 13th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Okay, let’s put this to bed.
1. When someone starts a comment off with, essentially, “no offence but you’re all IDIOTS!!”…then frankly, I won’t respect anything you say beyond that.
2. When an apology consists of, essentially, “I already apologized for calling people idiots, but it’s true”…then why bother with an apology?
Those are why I said “Your opinion matters. As much as your apologies do.”
IF (and I mean “if”) I misinterpreted what had been said, then I will sincerely apologize to Alternaverse Spider-Fan.
Absolutely everything that I have said has been solely in defence of this site and it’s members and fans.
August 13th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
No prob, Drill Claw.
August 13th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
@The Dark Spider – Actually, I agree with you. Fred and I are on the same side, so it strikes me as silly that he’ll constantly berate me for asking a question. We both think The Death of Gwen Stacy was a defining moment in Spidey’s history. We both think that it was done for the best of the character. We both think OMD sucks. We both think it was a poorly done story. We both think it has contributed nothing to the Spider-man mythos. So I don’t know what his problem is.
The circumstances were a whole lot alike. But Fred is right: Gwen Stacy’s death wasn’t done as a reboot of the franchise or because Stan Lee or Jerry Conway had run out of ideas. It ultimately added depth to Peter Parker’s character. It was a vastly superior story to OMD. I accept that Spider-man would lose the love of his life as a direct result of battling his greatest foe, and having said foe meet his end as comeuppance. I can’t accept that Spider-man would willingly make a deal with the devil and give up the love of his life, even if it was to save his aunt.
But that’s just me. Fans are notorious for what they will or won’t accept, and the Internet makes it easy for them to be very vocal about it. I wasn’t around in 1973. I don’t know how fan outcries were carried out. I suppose Marvel may have gotten some angry letters from readers at the time. I don’t know. And without a Newsrama, Comic Book Resources, Ain’t it Cool News, or even Spider-man Crawlspace, how would fans know the reasoning behind ASM #112? The behind the scenes story was revealed through Comic Buyer’s Guide and The 100 Greatest Marvels of All Time, much later in time.
But in time, it became evident that Stan Lee, Jerry Conway, John Romita, or Roy Thomas weren’t trying to be jerks with the fanbase. I will say also that I don’t think time will ever be kind to Joe Quesada.
My whole attitude of “Hey, guys. Look what I just discovered!” was met with a resounding “You’re an idiot.” Especially by Fred. I mean, when you are right, you are right. I just don’t appreciate it when people put words in my mouth, telling me what I’m trying to say like I don’t know it myself, making themselves sound smarter when really they are foolishly fighting people who are on your same side. And really, the way I deal with people like that is by yelling at them.
I fully expect him to reply and say how I am inferior in debate. I won’t deny that I was never allowed on the debate team in high school. And really, all I wanted to do was “Hey, guys. Look what I found!” But don’t go around telling me what I’m doing like I don’t know myself.
August 14th, 2010 at 1:28 am
@Two-Bit Specialist: “Let’s pretend now that if a story (let’s NOT call it OMD for sake of making a point) had been written in which Peter and MJ were separated, but the story respected all the characterization of the last 30 years, allowed the characters to grow, and, in fact, was written by none other than Stan Lee. The year is 2007. What do you think the reaction would be?
a) “Man, that was a great story. Good thing Stan got rid of that marriage.”
b) “I want the marriage still, but Stan knows what he’s doing. This was pretty well-written.”
c) “Who does Stan Lee think he is? Why did he split Peter and MJ? This is the worst story ever.”
Personally, I would find myself on the “B”-list. I’ve said before, and I’ll say again, my problem with the entire OMD/BND/OMIT disaster is NOT that Peter and MJ are no longer married (Yes, they are). If they were divorced, separated, or split for some other PLAUSIBLE reason, then I would have no problem with it. These are facts of life, and are everyday occurrences throughout the world. Although I loved the marriage, and I would’ve been upset, I could have dealt with it, as long as it stayed true to the characters, and their emotions.
What I CAN NOT tolerate is a childish INSISTENCE that Spider-Man be single again, to the point that over 20 years of continuity, and great stories are flushed down the toilet through such an asinine reason as a deal with the devil! That is not just bad storytelling, it’s a middle-finger to Spider-Man fans everywhere, whether they were fans of the marriage or not. Dead characters are inexplicably brought back to life, the entire world (Including Venom, Norman, and several other people who really SHOULD know who he is!) simply “forgets” that Peter Parker is Spider-Man…who by the way, has decided that the best way to honor his Uncle’s memory is to SLEEP WITH EVERY WOMAN HE MEETS.
Long story short, Gwen’s death was tragic, and probably angered SOME people, who may or may not have stopped buying the comics.
OMD & OMIT have angered OVER HALF of the readers, many who have gone so far as swearing off the comics. Let me repeat…not just “stopped buying”, but SWEARING OFF the comics!
So, yes, there is a difference. And the difference is the quality of the writing, and the effects on Spider-Man as a character.
August 14th, 2010 at 7:51 am
“My whole attitude of “Hey, guys. Look what I just discovered!” was met with a resounding “You’re an idiot.” Especially by Fred.”
One, i never called you an idiot or insulted you once, so if you are going to lie to make yourself look like a victim, try to do a better job of it.
Second, i gave you points on my argument and you refused to answer them and in turn you acted up by throwing a fit and writing in caps.
Third, i put up your own quotes to answer you, so where am i putting words in your mouth when those quotes are coming from you?
Spare me the victim act and don’t lie.
August 14th, 2010 at 8:55 am
I’m sorry, Fred, but when you started attacking me instead of trying to carry a conversation, I lost interest. With me constantly talking about the Internet, I forgot that it’s also full of people who like to fight with everyone, even when they are on the exactly same side. How sad.
August 14th, 2010 at 8:57 am
@AmFan15 I think we can all agree that the quality of both storylines is the dividing factor here. Thank you for participating in a civil manner.
August 14th, 2010 at 10:44 am
“I’m sorry, Fred, but when you started attacking me instead of trying to carry a conversation, I lost interest. With me constantly talking about the Internet, I forgot that it’s also full of people who like to fight with everyone, even when they are on the exactly same side. How sad.”
I think what is sad is the fact that you would resort to lying and playing victim because you defend your points.
August 14th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
@Fred – You mean the points that we both already agree on? I’m not the liar here. You keep saying I’m trying to do something when I’m not.
August 14th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
“You mean the points that we both already agree on?”
You never addressed my point other than act like a five year old by writing in caps and avoiding what i told you. Again, another lie.
“I’m not the liar here”
You are the liar here, especially when you try to say that i called you an idiot.: Again you’re own words, not you trying to lie by saying that i’m putting words in your mouth.
““My whole attitude of “Hey, guys. Look what I just discovered!” was met with a resounding “You’re an idiot.” Especially by Fred.”
Again think very hard before you start lying through your teeth. Stop paying victim and grow up.
August 14th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
I hate playing moderator so grow up you guys! If you’re so willing to tear into each other for some statements that to me have been taking out of context then go ahead and tear into each other. I’ll just stand on the side lines and enjoy the carnage.
August 14th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Wow, talk about multiple personalities Drill Claw and Alternaverse Spider-Fan are the same person. They have the same IP and both have now been banned. What a jerk.
August 14th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
@Fred – Grow up? Please. You sound like the typical 13-year-old who just discovered the Internet, by trying to sound smarter than he is. What points exactly do you want me to address? I don’t know how else to tell you that we are on the same side. If this was in person, I’d be yelling at you for being a stubborn punk. Hence the all caps.
You keep calling me a child and a liar rather than to be civil. So of course I feel a little victimized. You’d feel the same way if I started to call you names too, except I haven’t.
But you know what? I’m going to start using your tactics and take statements out of context too:
“i called you an idiot”
Your words, not mine.
August 14th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
I love the smell of carnage in the afternoon.
August 14th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
“You keep calling me a child and a liar rather than to be civil.”
Did not all you are child, i told you to grow up and stop acting like a victim, big difference. And i called you a liar and backed it up.
“So of course I feel a little victimized.”
If you feel victimized, you need to get out more.
“But you know what? I’m going to start using your tactics and take statements out of context too:”
Actually, lying and making stuff up is what you been doing.
Once again, you should grow up.
August 14th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
You keep calling me a child and a liar rather than to be civil.”
Did not call you a child, i told you to grow up and stop acting like a victim, big difference. And i called you a liar and backed it up.
“So of course I feel a little victimized.”
If you feel victimized, you need to get out more.
“But you know what? I’m going to start using your tactics and take statements out of context too:”
Actually, lying and making stuff up is what you been doing.
Once again, you should grow up.
August 14th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Ok Two Bit and Fred break it up now. Or warnings will go out. Get back on topic and not make multiple posts about hurt feelings.
August 14th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
To the guy that stated above that the removal of the Spider-Marriage (I think it was Stuart Green) “split” the fan-base in half and they should bring it back.
How will this reunite the fan base?
I’ve been reading Spidey faithfully since 1975, and yes, there have been ups & downs, and while OMD stunk, I’m really enjoying the BND stories (for the most part), and I like the idea of Peter being single… even throughout the marriage years…
So is bringing it back really going to reunite Spider-Fans?
Or just appease some of the pissed off ones?
August 14th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
wow.
Just, wow.
August 14th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
So…does O.M.I.T. stand for “Oh, Man, It’s Terrible!”? Or “Oy, Marvel’s In Trouble”?
(Just trying to lighten the mood around here!)
August 14th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
Dang, I didn’t even remember what the topic was about. Here I thought I have posed an interesting notion and Fred spat all over it, but whatever.
@Themanofbat – Believe it or not, there are kids out there that want a single Spider-man. I don’t know if they’ll be raving mad when it does inevitable happen that Peter and MJ go back to being married, though. I guess you just can’t please everybody.
August 16th, 2010 at 11:54 am
With the movies and such, I have no doubt that at some point down the road, Peter & MJ might become a couple again… just not a married one.
So I’ll enjoy the ride between now and then…
August 16th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Damn. What the hell did I miss when I was playing Halo Reach beta? You know what, the Spider-man fan base Civil War is way more intense than that Superhero Registration fan base one a while back.