BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by Cheesedique » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:37 pm

The Washington Post:

Here’s why it’s a big deal that comics star Brian Michael Bendis jumped from Marvel to DC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/com ... 0fbd698ff7

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by Big Al » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:37 pm

RDMacQ wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:45 pm
And having one title be "The Amazing Spider-Man" and the other title just be "Spider-Man," that's confusing on a marketing level. It does beg the question "Which is the main title." And once you bring into the fact that they star two different characters, both named Spider-Man, it's just all the more confusing. Not to mention, it comes across as weird to have the character who originated and defined the role as Spider-Man have to be the one to differentiate himself in the marketing. That he has to be in the title "Amazing" Spider-Man, or "Peter Parker, the Spectacular" Spider-Man, while Miles just gets to be "Spider-Man." It implies preferential treatment towards the newer character, which isn't helping Marvel's current case that they weren't willing to sacrifice their established heroes for the "New hotness."

So I can understand differentiating Miles from Peter in order to help with marketing and advertising. But I can also understand how you would feel if you had created the character of Miles and wanted him to be seen as equal and valid and just as important as Peter, and not be defined by his race, that something like that would ultimately feel a bit like a betrayal.
You ain't kidding.

When Power Play was on the solicits I honestly thought there had been a typpo in the hye text because they mentioned Spider-Man twice as though he was fighting himself. But they meant Miles.

If Bendis wanted Miles to remain as Spider-Man then bringing him into the same universe where he was always going to be one of a minimum of 2 Spider-Men (technically after Secret Wars there were three people called Spider-Man, not to mention Venom, Scarlet Spider, etc) was an asinine idea
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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by RDMacQ » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:16 pm

Big Al wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:37 pm
You ain't kidding.

When Power Play was on the solicits I honestly thought there had been a typpo in the hye text because they mentioned Spider-Man twice as though he was fighting himself. But they meant Miles.

If Bendis wanted Miles to remain as Spider-Man then bringing him into the same universe where he was always going to be one of a minimum of 2 Spider-Men (technically after Secret Wars there were three people called Spider-Man, not to mention Venom, Scarlet Spider, etc) was an asinine idea
That assumes Miles moving over to the MCU was something that Bendis had any say in.

It seems like something that was decided for him, and he just had to roll with it. The Ultimate line wasn't what it used to be, and it was going to fold. But they wanted to salvage Miles since he was such a popular and notable character, and likely didn't want to lose him. So the powers that be decided that Miles was going to move over, and Bendis likely had to just roll with it.

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by Venomous Mask » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:04 pm

Did Bendis really want to replace Peter with Miles completely?

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by RDMacQ » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:11 pm

Venomous Mask wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:04 pm
Did Bendis really want to replace Peter with Miles completely?
I highly doubt it. I know people tend to make that assumption, but I doubt Bendis honestly wanted to retire Peter completely and replace him with Miles.

I think what Bendis wanted to do instead was not have Miles be seen as a lesser or inferior Spider-Man. Or, to use Slott's rather blunt and inappropriate term, a "Funhouse mirror" of Spider-Man. I don't think Bendis wanted Miles to just be seen as the "Black" or "Brown" Spider-Man, as a character solely defined by his race. Hence why he pushed for the simple name "Spider-Man," to essentially reinforce the idea that Miles is not defined by his diversity, and he is just as valid a character as Peter himself.

But, as I said, this is where good intentions runs up against just simple logistics. As I stated before, it's kind of weird that the character who originated the role of Spider-Man has to differentiate himself from his successor. That Miles is just Spider-Man, while Peter has to have "Amazing" or "Spectacular" or "Peter Parker" attached to it. It seems like Peter, despite having multiple titles, is the one that is being put on the back burner in favor of Miles Morales. And that can cause problems within the customer base. Not to mention confusion in the shops in regards to people wondering which comic is which and wondering why there's one book called Amazing Spider-Man and another book just called Spider-Man, but they star two different characters.

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by MisterMets » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:46 am

MRstarkiller360 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:49 pm
Adam S. wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:12 pm
Spideydude wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:21 pm
You guys don’t think that Jane Thor is a success?
Not a lot of praise for it in places that I frequent.
I have seen however that she has decent sales though.
Big Al wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:54 pm
With Bendis gone i expect Miles is now vulnerable to disappearing within the next ten years unless they handle him correctly.

Bendis was the biggest Miles fan around and since he had enough power to be EIC if he wanted (he just didn't want that job) Miles' prominence is precarious now.

I mean I have wanted Bendis off of Miles book for a long while now, but the threat of Miles outright supplanting or replacing Peter's prominence within Marvel would logically diminish now Miles has lost his biggest cheerleader.

The idea of Peter being sidelined for Miles sake would similarly be diminished by this since Bendis outright advocated for that.

I just hope this means no more shitty characterization of MJ in Iron Man
The thing is that Bendis was kinda desperate to remain in the title because he said that he did not like the direction that they were going to take the character.
Perhaps the direction was to sideline the character in favor of Peter however Bendis could not stand that so he stuck around.

I honestly hope that with him gone, Miles and Riri can just fade away into the backgound and no one caring.
Miles is going to be in his own animated movie, and going to have a high profile role in a new cartoon (after having a similar high-profile role in a similar cartoon) and he's already been referenced in Homecoming. He's not going anywhere.

Where did Bendis say he didn't like Marvel's plans for Miles in the MCU?
RDMacQ wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:10 pm
There's really no two ways about this- this is a game changer.

Bendis leaving Marvel is as big as a blow as you can get for Marvel. It really did seem that he was part of the furniture for the longest time. I honestly didn't think he'd ever leave. Which, when thinking about it, may have been the reason for the move.

I know that people have been making the conclusions that Bendis left because of the "Mess" that is Marvel right now. And that may be a part of it. But his departure also reminds me of Jon Stewart walking away from the Daily Show back in 2015. Many people wondered why he'd walk away from one of the most popular shows on television, where he was one of the most respected people in the entertainment industry. And the reason simply seemed to be that he wanted a change. And I wouldn't be surprised if Bendis felt the same way.

Seventeen years is a lot of time to be at one place. Especially in a creative capacity. There was very little left for Bendis to do. He had written Spider-Man, the Avengers, X-Men, Daredevil, Guardians of the Galaxy, Iron Man, the Defenders and more. He'd been all across the spectrum of stories, across two continuities, created multiple characters. Quite honestly, there was very little left for him to do or go. What else did he have left? The Hulk? Thor? The Fantastic Four doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon, and there was never any sign that Bendis was interested in that franchise. Couple with that the fact that Bendis' creative energy seemed to be spent, with people not being as satisfied with his work as they used to, in addition to the fact that a lot of his long time contributors have moved on to different projects, Bendis could have just decided it was time to go. He may no longer have been satisfied with how the stories were being produced, and how much time he had to devote to them.

And that really is another thing that I don't think I've seen anyone else point out. While Bendis has been able to keep a steady output, the one thing that seems to have been sacrificed over the years is his creator owned work. Sure, he's managed to get his Marvel work out on time. But comics like Powers just came to a stop with no resolution. Brilliant was announced with great aplomb, but it disappeared into the mist without anyone noticing. The one thing that DC seems to allow is that their creators can do both DC work and creator owned projects no problem. Scott Snyder isn't put on twelve books, and has no time for his own stories. Tom King is able to work on Batman as well as do smaller, more personal projects like Mr. Miracle. Bendis may have been looking to do something more like that. And DC could have approached him with a sweet deal- basically allowing Bendis to get paid the same as he did with Marvel, but write less, and have more time to work on his own projects and do stuff with his family.

And that's another thing to consider. Bendis may have decided to walk away from Marvel to spend more time with his kids. Marvel may not have been willing to let him reduce his workload and keep paying him the same amount. Or they could have allowed him to do so, but expected a longer term contract. Or they could have decided that if he wanted to reup his contract, he would have to make a longer commitment he was just not willing to make. So he may have decided to just go the creator owned route, letting Marvel know he'll fulfill his previous commitments, and even work on a few projects here and there, but he's going the independent route at this point. And when DC heard that he was not renewing his contract, then came in and said "Hey, wanna work for us? You'll get to do all tha and get a steady paycheck!"

There's probably a lot of reasons why Bendis walked away and towards DC. I doubt it would be for something as petty as "They turned one of my stories down" or "They wanted me to stop pushing Riri." Bendis doesn't appear to be that unprofessional to me. I think this was probably a very personal decision he thought long and hard about, and decided that it may have been in the best for him, his sanity and his health.

But I guess the one thing we can take from all this is that information from "The Whisperer" released a few months ago really was BS, since one of the things that was mentioned was that Bendis was never going to leave Marvel, and Marvel wasn't going to let him leave.
If a big factor was a change in salary, one issue is that it might not have been worth it for Marvel in the same way it was for DC.

Bendis on a Batman title will sell better than Bendis on Captain America (possibly the highest profile series he hasn't written yet.)

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by Big Al » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:57 am

RDMacQ wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:16 pm
Big Al wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:37 pm
You ain't kidding.

When Power Play was on the solicits I honestly thought there had been a typpo in the hye text because they mentioned Spider-Man twice as though he was fighting himself. But they meant Miles.

If Bendis wanted Miles to remain as Spider-Man then bringing him into the same universe where he was always going to be one of a minimum of 2 Spider-Men (technically after Secret Wars there were three people called Spider-Man, not to mention Venom, Scarlet Spider, etc) was an asinine idea
That assumes Miles moving over to the MCU was something that Bendis had any say in.

It seems like something that was decided for him, and he just had to roll with it. The Ultimate line wasn't what it used to be, and it was going to fold. But they wanted to salvage Miles since he was such a popular and notable character, and likely didn't want to lose him. So the powers that be decided that Miles was going to move over, and Bendis likely had to just roll with it.
I don't agree because Bedis has criticized the MU for stealing elemnts of the Ultimate line thus rendering the MU more and more redundant. So I think he was all in favour of transferring Miles to play with the Big Boys.

Also the Ultimate universe didn't need to be deleted wholesale. Miles book could've been the lone book in that universe much like Spider-Gwen is
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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by Big Al » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:58 am

RDMacQ wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:11 pm
Venomous Mask wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:04 pm
Did Bendis really want to replace Peter with Miles completely?
I highly doubt it. I know people tend to make that assumption, but I doubt Bendis honestly wanted to retire Peter completely and replace him with Miles.

I think what Bendis wanted to do instead was not have Miles be seen as a lesser or inferior Spider-Man. Or, to use Slott's rather blunt and inappropriate term, a "Funhouse mirror" of Spider-Man. I don't think Bendis wanted Miles to just be seen as the "Black" or "Brown" Spider-Man, as a character solely defined by his race. Hence why he pushed for the simple name "Spider-Man," to essentially reinforce the idea that Miles is not defined by his diversity, and he is just as valid a character as Peter himself.

But, as I said, this is where good intentions runs up against just simple logistics. As I stated before, it's kind of weird that the character who originated the role of Spider-Man has to differentiate himself from his successor. That Miles is just Spider-Man, while Peter has to have "Amazing" or "Spectacular" or "Peter Parker" attached to it. It seems like Peter, despite having multiple titles, is the one that is being put on the back burner in favor of Miles Morales. And that can cause problems within the customer base. Not to mention confusion in the shops in regards to people wondering which comic is which and wondering why there's one book called Amazing Spider-Man and another book just called Spider-Man, but they star two different characters.
He literally said that at a recent convention so...yes he totally did. Case closed
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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by BlackSuit » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:58 am

MRstarkiller360 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:30 pm
Miles book was never something that I wanted to read because of the intent behind Bendis where he wanted Miles to be seen as THE Spider-Man. So much so that he did not want to give the book an adjective because he felt like it would only diminish the character of Miles.
Looking at the recent rumers that Bendis was going to get "Mile Morales : Spider-Man" instead of remaining just Spider-Man, must have really pissed him off since he must have felt that it would diminish the character in him being THE Spider-Man!
I never read Miles book consistently, most because I don't find him particularly interesting. This thing about not giving Miles an adjective doesn't make much sense, having an African American with the title may be seem as important to some people, but giving to his title the name of Ultimate Spider-Man, for example, would not diminish him, in the same way the name Scarlet Spider doesn't diminish Ben Reilly,
RDMacQ wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:11 pm
I highly doubt it. I know people tend to make that assumption, but I doubt Bendis honestly wanted to retire Peter completely and replace him with Miles.

I think what Bendis wanted to do instead was not have Miles be seen as a lesser or inferior Spider-Man. Or, to use Slott's rather blunt and inappropriate term, a "Funhouse mirror" of Spider-Man. I don't think Bendis wanted Miles to just be seen as the "Black" or "Brown" Spider-Man, as a character solely defined by his race. Hence why he pushed for the simple name "Spider-Man," to essentially reinforce the idea that Miles is not defined by his diversity, and he is just as valid a character as Peter himself.

But, as I said, this is where good intentions runs up against just simple logistics. As I stated before, it's kind of weird that the character who originated the role of Spider-Man has to differentiate himself from his successor. That Miles is just Spider-Man, while Peter has to have "Amazing" or "Spectacular" or "Peter Parker" attached to it. It seems like Peter, despite having multiple titles, is the one that is being put on the back burner in favor of Miles Morales. And that can cause problems within the customer base. Not to mention confusion in the shops in regards to people wondering which comic is which and wondering why there's one book called Amazing Spider-Man and another book just called Spider-Man, but they star two different characters.
It is more likely for me, I think that would be too delusional for someone to thing he could replace Peter Parker with his own version of Spider-Man for the long run, n matter how good this new version may be. He may wanted his character to have prominence to send a political message, but the timing that this happened was awful, with every major hero being replaced by a diverse iteration with the same discourse and with their original counterpart being treated badly and with Peter becoming unrecognizable and with New York and his rogue gallery being giving to Miles it is hard to not think they wanted to undermined Peter at sake of Miles.
Big Al wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:58 am
He literally said that at a recent convention so...yes he totally did. Case closed
Did he explicitly said he wanted to replace Peter as the main Spider-Man in a convention? When was that?

By the way, if he wanted Miles to get more prominence he should have pushed the higher ups at Marvel to undo One More Day and get Peter and Mary Jane back as a married couple. One thing the boneheads leading Marvel have is this obsession of Peter having to be about youth, convincing them that Miles can be their official young Spider-Man and letting Peter go ahead would show that Miles is really serious and not just a palette swap for the sack of representativiness.

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by RDMacQ » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:48 am

BlackSuit wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:58 am
It is more likely for me, I think that would be too delusional for someone to thing he could replace Peter Parker with his own version of Spider-Man for the long run, n matter how good this new version may be. He may wanted his character to have prominence to send a political message, but the timing that this happened was awful, with every major hero being replaced by a diverse iteration with the same discourse and with their original counterpart being treated badly and with Peter becoming unrecognizable and with New York and his rogue gallery being giving to Miles it is hard to not think they wanted to undermined Peter at sake of Miles.
Personally, I feel that the big "Diversity Push" was done more for the sake of sales and attention than it was because Marvel wanted to "Replace" every single character. It just happened all at the same time.

Miles Morales turned out to be a success in the Ultimate U. Kamala Kahn was a major win for Marvel, both financially and politically. With two "Wins" in their column, that gave Marvel a new idea as to how to drive up interest in their books. Just get rid of an established character, replace them with a new one, and then have the "Original" come back in time for the films. It worked like gangbusters for Peter Parker and Superior, so why not do it for everyone else?

But the problem is that they did it far too much, far too often, and often at the expense of the established heroes. As I said before, the reasons Miles and Kamala worked was due to the fact that the originals were still around, in one way or another. Ultimate Peter was dead, but 616 Peter was still alive. Kamala Kahn was Ms. Marvel, but Carol Danvers graduated to Captain Marvel.

However, that was not the case with everyone else. Steve Rogers was transformed into an old man to make way for Sam Wilson. But when Steve was rejuvenated, he came back as- for lack of a better term- Nazi, which made it seem like he was being diminished for the sake of his replacement. Bruce Banner was depowered and killed off, while Amadeus Cho got to be the "Totally Awesome" Hulk, who had no issues with the Hulks abilities and controlled them far better than Bruce could. Logan was killed off and replaced with X-23, with there being no rush to bring him back in any capacity. Janet Van Dyne was sent into limbo while Nadia Pym got all the attention. The male Thor was replaced with Jane Foster, with there being no rush to seemingly restore the originals "Worthiness" and have him come back, with the storyline being stretched out for several years.

But then the final nail in the coffin came when Tony Stark was to be replaced by Riri Williams. Again, as I said before, the announcement that the new Iron Man would be a 14 year old teenage, African American girl, just read like an Onion article mocking the over the top, political correctness gone mad notion at Marvel. And I'm an advocate for political correctness, and even I think it was a little much. We had barely known Riri, and yet every single story she's in everyone is telling her how great and amazing she is, how awesome she is how she'll do great things. She's smarter than Tony Stark. She's a better hero than almost everyone. Everyone is in awe of her. It just was way too much. Fans were already wary of the character when it was thought she was going to be the new War Machine. But to make her Iron Man? And have it be done in the way that she was just given the keys to the kingdom, with no question as to whether or not she is a good fit or she is capable of handling such a task? Yeah, it was a bit much.

And it just got worse from there. Miles Morales was made the centerpiece in not one, not two, but three major Marvel events. That's something that Peter- the guy who's been Spidey for over 50 years at this point- never got. And again, there seemed to be no rush to restore these established characters to their original settings. We've gotten better in the past few months, but that seemed to be out of desperation more than anything else. Marvel's entire policy seemed to be- and they even admitted it- was to "Piss people off." And they did. But they pissed off too many people, for a lot of different reasons. And that's likely why they are hurting so much in sales right now.

There's a difference between fans being angry, and fans being passionate, and Marvel seemed to forget that distinction. And the problem is they don't really seem to be interested in changing their ways anytime soon.

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:36 am

MisterMets wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:46 am
Miles is going to be in his own animated movie, and going to have a high profile role in a new cartoon (after having a similar high-profile role in a similar cartoon) and he's already been referenced in Homecoming. He's not going anywhere.
With Bendis gone, chances are that Miles will be sidelined in order to give room for Peter. And one day the character might, hopefully, disappear for good!
MisterMets wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:46 am
Where did Bendis say he didn't like Marvel's plans for Miles in the MCU?
I don't remember which article however he did state, at some point, that that was the reason why he did not leave the title. Hell some people even said that Bendis had to beg for him to remain in the title!

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by John Ossie » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:04 pm

I quite like Miles personally speaking so I for one am not hoping he ''disappears''.

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by Timmyb52 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:05 pm

I'm wondering if a part of DC's idea to grab up Marvel writers is also a way of DC trying to light a fire under Marvel's ass in order to get their crap together and fix their sinking ship?
DC must realize that a comic industry without Marvel is an unhealthy one...so they are basically slapping Marvel in the face in order to wake them up from their state of unconsciousness as it relates to the fans and their current bad direction.
Just some food for thought.

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by Spider-Padre » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm

Timmyb52 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:05 pm
I'm wondering if a part of DC's idea to grab up Marvel writers is also a way of DC trying to light a fire under Marvel's ass in order to get their crap together and fix their sinking ship?
DC must realize that a comic industry without Marvel is an unhealthy one...so they are basically slapping Marvel in the face in order to wake them up from their state of unconsciousness as it relates to the fans and their current bad direction.
Just some food for thought.
I heard a saying once: The biggest myths are that generals like war and businessmen like competition. So, nah, I don't think so.

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Re: BENDIS IS LEAVING MARVEL!

Post by RDMacQ » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:36 am

Spider-Padre wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm
I heard a saying once: The biggest myths are that generals like war and businessmen like competition. So, nah, I don't think so.
That may be true for other businesses, but Marvel and DC- like Pepsi and Coke- are unique in their situations.

Marvel and DC require each other to survive. And the industry needs both businesses to be healthy if it is to survive. The industry isn't strong enough for just one major publisher. It needs Marvel and DC to be doing the best they can. DC isn't strong enough to carry the industry alone, and neither is Marvel. They are stronger together, even though they are their own biggest rivals.

And, according to Bleeding Cool, some DC excecs do wish that Marvel would get their act together and be a strong presence again, rather than the shell of it's former glory it has deteriorated into. The poaching of Bendis may not have been done to light a fire under Marvel's @$$, but I think DC would be happier if Marvel had a stronger presence in the industry.

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