The Best & Worst of 2017

Discuss Spidey's comics, or any other comics that you like.

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Masked Guy
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The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Masked Guy » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:24 pm

With 2017 quickly coming to an end, I figured it would be a good time to discuss the best and worst Spider-Man comics to come out this year. 2017 was a pretty terrible year for Marvel comics overall, but don't just take my word for it:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... cs-1070616

Unfortunately, Spider-Man very much ended up being caught in the storm of awfulness. Dan Slott's run on AMAZING continued its downward spiral, Chip Zdarsky put out some truly terrible issues of SPECTACULAR early on and even RENEW YOUR VOWS lost quite a bit of steam as the year wore on.

But not everything was bad.


BEST STORY OF 2017:

My Dinner with Jonah (SPECTACULAR vol. 3 #6)

This comic was definitely the biggest surprise of the year. As previously mentioned, the first five issues of SPECTACULAR done by Chip Zdarsky were dreadful. Dragging plots, dull action, painfully unfunny humor and mediocre artwork all served to start Volume 3 of this title on a horrible foot. I had just about given up on it until this issue hit.

Going into it, I expected more forced, obnoxious jokes with no depth whatsoever. I was very glad to be wrong. Zdarsky managed to delve into the psyche of J. Jonah Jameson better than just about any other writer has before (excluding perhaps Marv Wolfman, Gerry Conway and Peter David). At first, it was very satisfying to see Spidey call Jonah out on his hypocrisy and (at times) stupidity, but that quickly changed as Jonah began to break down. Here, you truly came to understand that Jonah was a very broken man who had absolutely nothing left in his life other than his hatred of Spider-Man. At this point, Jonah is desperately clinging to that loathing because he really has lost everything else. Stellar drama and characterization all around.

Spidey unmasking to Jonah may be questionable, but you can't deny that it has opened some very intriguing story opportunities. I for one am eager to see how far this will go.


WORST STORY OF 2017:

The Fall of Parker (AMAZING vol. 1 #789-791)

If you (like me) were vaguely hoping that Dan Slott's run might improve somewhat with the collapse of Parker Industries and the launch of LEGACY, this story pretty much snuffed out that faint glimmer of hope forever. Aside from Power Play (AMAZING vol. 4 #12-15), this might just be Slott's worst work to date.

First of all, I am absolutely sick of Peter Parker being portrayed as an inept loser. He just lost his company and instead of trying to make amends or search for a job, he instead sulks around his girlfriend's apartment feeling sorry for himself while wearing her "Ask Me About My Feminist Agenda" t-shirt (ugh). Peter was an absolutely inept CEO who had nothing to do with the success of his own company (see vol. 4 #29 for a reminder of this fact) and now he's a moping little man-child who needs his girlfriend to tell him to wake up and go get a job. And then later, he needs said girlfriend to save him from Grifter because Spidey has become so incompetent that he can't even bring down a D-list joke villain on his own. And while we're on the subject, Peter contains little to no chemistry with Bobbi Morse/Mockingbird. Bobbi even comes off as more annoyed and even disgusted with Peter when she has to tell Peter to wake up and get a job, labels her food telling him he can't eat it and sticks a humiliating newspaper article of him to the refrigerator with magnets spelling out "HA HA". I'm sorry, why should we like seeing these two together again?

Peter also decides it's more productive to ditch is best friend (who is only trying to help him) so he can avoid responsibility for all the jobs he's ruined by doing mundane things like helping old ladies with their groceries, moving parked cars, taking selfies with people and playing jump-rope with children. Good to see Peter knows where his priorities lie. Then we're treated to yet another dumb and pointless fight sequence between Spidey and The Human Torch (as if the first in vol. 4 #3 wasn't bad enough) because the two of them are apparently idiots who are incapable of talking things out like reasonable adults and friends. How on Earth is this the same guy who wrote the excellent Spider-Man and The Human Torch mini-series twelve years back? And to top this all off, we get an extended appearance and conflict with the character hardly anyone actually cares about, Clash. Seriously, is anyone interested in him at all?

Lastly, you have the final issue of this dumpster fire that only serves to highlight how unlikable Mockingbird is and makes you question why Peter would even be with her. Bobbi giving a lecture on how trying to design a machine with a male voice is "suppressing the female voice" is political Tumblr garbage that Slott should feel embarrassed for writing. And how about her scolding Peter for daring to assume that the big sand villain is a man? Spidey may have fought the Sandman way more often than Sandstorm (whom he only encountered once), but there's clearly some underlying sexism here, right? No. This political nonsense is a big reason Marvel comics tanked so heavily this year-- on top of the comics themselves being incredibly boring and uninteresting-- kind of like this one.

Stuart Immonen's artwork is the only positive thing in this entire arc. Dan Slott has been writing Spider-Man for a decade now; how is he still this bad? He showed such promise with the aforementioned Spider-Man and The Human Torch mini-series, but he has fumbled the ball in nearly every way since becoming the regular writer, only having a few worthwhile stories after so long.


What are your favorite and least favorite Spidey stories of 2017?
Last edited by Masked Guy on Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Andrew C
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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Andrew C » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:36 pm

Masked Guy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:24 pm

WORST STORY OF 2017:

The Fall of Parker (AMAZING vol. 1 #789-791)

If you (like me) were vaguely hoping that Dan Slott's run might improve somewhat with the collapse of Parker Industries and the launch of LEGACY, this story pretty much snuffed out that faint glimmer of hope forever. Aside from Power Play (AMAZING vol. 4 #12-15), this might just be Slott's worst work to date.

First of all, I am absolutely sick of Peter Parker being portrayed as an inept loser. He just lost his company and instead of trying to make amends or search for a job, he instead sulks around his girlfriend's apartment feeling sorry for himself while wearing her "Ask Me About My Feminist Agenda" t-shirt (ugh). Peter was an absolutely inept CEO who had nothing to do with the success of his own company (see vol. 4 #29 for a reminder of this fact) and now he's a moping little man-child who needs his girlfriend to tell him to wake up and go get a job. And then later, he needs said girlfriend to save him from Grifter because Spidey has become so incompetent that he can't even bring down a D-list joke villain on his own. And while we're on the subject, Peter contains little to no chemistry with Bobbi Morse/Mockingbird. Bobbi even comes off as more annoyed and even disgusted with Peter when she has to tell Peter to wake up and get a job, labels her food telling him he can't eat it and sticks a humiliating newspaper article of him to the refrigerator with magnets spelling out "HA HA". I'm sorry, why should we like seeing these two together again?
Slott writes romantic subplots like a robot that has just landed on Earth and watches a marathon of crappy romcoms in order to “learn our ways” and blend in with the humans. It’s embarrassing. There’s nothing real or authentic in any of these characters’ interactions with each other. Someone needs to shove a copy of Matt Fraction’s ‘To Have and to Hold’ Spidey annual in front of him to show how to write Peter in an organic love story.

Sorry, MG. I can’t answer “best story.” I didn’t read ‘Dinner with Jonah’ after all the bad press Spec got. But maybe I’ll check it out. Everything else sucks though.

“Worst story”? Every. Thing.

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Masked Guy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:03 am

Andrew C wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:36 pm
Masked Guy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:24 pm

WORST STORY OF 2017:

The Fall of Parker (AMAZING vol. 1 #789-791)

If you (like me) were vaguely hoping that Dan Slott's run might improve somewhat with the collapse of Parker Industries and the launch of LEGACY, this story pretty much snuffed out that faint glimmer of hope forever. Aside from Power Play (AMAZING vol. 4 #12-15), this might just be Slott's worst work to date.

First of all, I am absolutely sick of Peter Parker being portrayed as an inept loser. He just lost his company and instead of trying to make amends or search for a job, he instead sulks around his girlfriend's apartment feeling sorry for himself while wearing her "Ask Me About My Feminist Agenda" t-shirt (ugh). Peter was an absolutely inept CEO who had nothing to do with the success of his own company (see vol. 4 #29 for a reminder of this fact) and now he's a moping little man-child who needs his girlfriend to tell him to wake up and go get a job. And then later, he needs said girlfriend to save him from Grifter because Spidey has become so incompetent that he can't even bring down a D-list joke villain on his own. And while we're on the subject, Peter contains little to no chemistry with Bobbi Morse/Mockingbird. Bobbi even comes off as more annoyed and even disgusted with Peter when she has to tell Peter to wake up and get a job, labels her food telling him he can't eat it and sticks a humiliating newspaper article of him to the refrigerator with magnets spelling out "HA HA". I'm sorry, why should we like seeing these two together again?
Slott writes romantic subplots like a robot that has just landed on Earth and watches a marathon of crappy romcoms in order to “learn our ways” and blend in with the humans. It’s embarrassing. There’s nothing real or authentic in any of these characters’ interactions with each other. Someone needs to shove a copy of Matt Fraction’s ‘To Have and to Hold’ Spidey annual in front of him to show how to write Peter in an organic love story.

Sorry, MG. I can’t answer “best story.” I didn’t read ‘Dinner with Jonah’ after all the bad press Spec got. But maybe I’ll check it out. Everything else sucks though.

“Worst story”? Every. Thing.
2017 is going to go down in history as one of the worst years for Marvel ever. Here's hoping for a brighter 2018...

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Cheesedique » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:20 pm

I'm hard-pressed to find a lot I would deem "best of" from this year.

I guess I would also nominate Spec Vol 3. #6, the Jonah conversation, as one of the best of the year, as well as it's marvelous follow up issue, #7, where Peter breaks down through the floors of his apartment to escape the police task force, Batman: Year One-style (and that was some mind-blowing Adam Kubert art--Kubert really rose to the occasion for that issue).

Who the hell would've thought ZDarsky's Spec would be making anyone's Best Of 2017??

I also quite like certain issues of the Eddie Brock Venom reboot (#150 or whatever issue Brock officially came back and fought Scorpion I thought had some incredible artwork). The short arc where Kraven appeared wasn't bad either. Bagley's artwork had a serious wow-factor in those issues.

Lastly, PAD impressively polished the turd that was Clonespiracy Ben27, as the new Scarlet Spider series did nothing but improve as it went along. I'm not the biggest Ben fan by any means, and I think the spider-lines and spinoffs need a serious culling, but this is a pretty fun book.

For worst, I have to agree that the Fall of Parker arc was crap. Just enervating writing from slott, who seems even more burnt out on Spider-Man now than at any other point. And of course, he had to get Mary Jane in a few panels to trash talk Peter. Dude really needs to pass the torch this coming year.

But for me, the worst I read in 2017 were the last few issues of Clonespiracy in the mini series and the ASM issues (for which Peter scarcely appeared in his own f###### book once again), the seriously-overlong tale that bled into this year. Just really bottom of the barrel stuff, a storyline no one wanted, and since Doc Ock, Kaine and Spider-Gwen did everything, Peter came across as even more useless than usual (I will say the Omega issue that tied it up was an improvement over the rest).

I agree, this year was pretty bad. Marvel has nowhere to go but up, and hopefully not further down.

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Masked Guy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:32 pm

Cheesedique wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:20 pm
I'm hard-pressed to find a lot I would deem "best of" from this year.

I guess I would also nominate Spec Vol 3. #6, the Jonah conversation, as one of the best of the year, as well as it's marvelous follow up issue, #7, where Peter breaks down through the floors of his apartment to escape the police task force, Batman: Year One-style (and that was some mind-blowing Adam Kubert art--Kubert really rose to the occasion for that issue).

Who the hell would've thought ZDarsky's Spec would be making anyone's Best Of 2017??

I also quite like certain issues of the Eddie Brock Venom reboot (#150 or whatever issue Brock officially came back and fought Scorpion I thought had some incredible artwork). The short arc where Kraven appeared wasn't bad either. Bagley's artwork had a serious wow-factor in those issues.

Lastly, PAD impressively polished the turd that was Clonespiracy Ben27, as the new Scarlet Spider series did nothing but improve as it went along. I'm not the biggest Ben fan by any means, and I think the spider-lines and spinoffs need a serious culling, but this is a pretty fun book.

For worst, I have to agree that the Fall of Parker arc was crap. Just enervating writing from slott, who seems even more burnt out on Spider-Man now than at any other point. And of course, he had to get Mary Jane in a few panels to trash talk Peter. Dude really needs to pass the torch this coming year.

But for me, the worst I read in 2017 were the last few issues of Clonespiracy in the mini series and the ASM issues (for which Peter scarcely appeared in his own f###### book once again), the seriously-overlong tale that bled into this year. Just really bottom of the barrel stuff, a storyline no one wanted, and since Doc Ock, Kaine and Spider-Gwen did everything, Peter came across as even more useless than usual (I will say the Omega issue that tied it up was an improvement over the rest).

I agree, this year was pretty bad. Marvel has nowhere to go but up, and hopefully not further down.
I almost went with Brawl in the Family (RENEW YOUR VOWS vol. 2 #1-5) as my favorite story of the year, but decided against it since it started in 2016 and ended in 2017. The Clone Conspiracy also began last year, so I wasn't sure if that could qualify as a candidate for worst story of 2017.

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:23 pm

Masked Guy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:24 pm
With 2017 quickly coming to an end, I figured it would be a good time to discuss the best and worst Spider-Man comics to come out this year. 2017 was a pretty terrible year for Marvel comics overall, but don't just take my word for it:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... cs-1070616
Unfortunately, Spider-Man very much ended up being caught in the storm of awfulness. Dan Slott's run on AMAZING continued its downward spiral, Chip Zdarsky put out some truly terrible issue of SPECTACULAR early on and even RENEW YOUR VOWS lost quite a bit of steam as the year wore on.

But not everything was bad.


BEST STORY OF 2017:

My Dinner with Jonah (SPECTACULAR vol. 3 #6)

This comic was definitely the biggest surprise of the year. As previously mentioned the first five issues of SPECTACULAR done by Chip Zdarsky were dreadful. Dragging plots, dull action, painfully unfunny humor and mediocre artwork all served to start Volume 3 of this title on a horrible foot. I had just about given up on the title until this issue hit.

Going into it, I expected more forced, obnoxious jokes with no depth whatsoever. I was very glad to be wrong. Zdarsky managed to delve into the psyche of J. Jonah Jameson better than just about any other writer has before (excluding perhaps Marv Wolfman and Peter David). At first, it was very satisfying to see Spidey call Jonah out on his hypocrisy and (at times) stupidity, but that quickly changed as Jonah began to break down. Here, you truly came to understand that Jonah was a very broken man who had absolutely nothing left in his life other than his hatred of Spider-Man. At this point, Jonah is desperately clinging to that loathing because he really has lost everything else. Stellar drama and characterization all around.

Spidey unmasking to Jonah may be questionable, but you can't deny that it has opened some very intriguing story opportunities. I for one am eager to see how far this will go.


WORST STORY OF 2017:

The Fall of Parker (AMAZING vol. 1 #789-791)

If you (like me) were vaguely hoping that Dan Slott's run might improve somewhat with the collapse of Parker Industries and the launch of LEGACY, this story pretty much snuffed out that faint glimmer of hope forever. Aside from Power Play (AMAZING vol. 4 #12-15), this might just be Slott's worst work to date.

First of all, I am absolutely sick of Peter Parker being portrayed as an inept loser. He just lost his company and instead of trying to make amends or search for a job, he instead sulks around his girlfriend's apartment feeling sorry for himself while wearing her "Ask Me About My Feminist Agenda" t-shirt (ugh). Peter was an absolutely inept CEO who had nothing to do with the success of his own company (see vol. 4 #29 for a reminder of this fact) and now he's a moping little man-child who needs his girlfriend to tell him to wake up and go get a job. And then later, he needs said girlfriend to save him from Grifter because Spidey has become so incompetent that he can't even bring down a D-list joke villain on his own. And while we're on the subject, Peter contains little to no chemistry with Bobbi Morse/Mockingbird. Bobbi even comes off as more annoyed and even disgusted with Peter when she has to tell Peter to wake up and get a job, labels her food telling him he can't eat it and sticks a humiliating newspaper article of him to the refrigerator with magnets spelling out "HA HA". I'm sorry, why should we like seeing these two together again?

Peter also decides it's more productive to ditch is best friend (who is only trying to help him) so he can avoid responsibility for all the jobs he's ruined by doing mundane things like helping old ladies with their groceries, moving parked cars, taking selfies with people and playing jump-rope with children. Good to see Peter knows where his priorities lie. Then we're treated to yet another dumb and pointless fight sequence between Spidey and The Human Torch (as if the first in vol. 4 #3 wasn't bad enough) because the two of them are apparently idiots who are incapable of talking things out like reasonable adults and friends. How on Earth is this the same guy who wrote the excellent Spider-Man and The Human Torch mini-series twelve years back? And to top this all off, we get an extended appearance and conflict with the character hardly anyone actually cares about, Clash. Seriously, is anyone interested in him at all?

Lastly, you have the final issue of this dumpster fire that only serves to highlight how unlikable Mockingbird is and makes you question why Peter would even be with her. Bobbi giving a lecture on how trying to design a machine with a male voice is "suppressing the female voice" is political Tumblr garbage that Slott should feel embarrassed for writing. And how about her scolding Peter for daring to assume that the big sand villain is a man? Spidey may have fought the Sandman way more often than Sandstorm (whom he only encountered once), but there's clearly some underlying sexism her, right? No. This political nonsense is a big reason Marvel comics tanked so heavily this year-- on top of the comics themselves being incredibly boring and uninteresting-- kind of like this one.

Stuart Immonen's artwork is the only positive thing in this entire arc. Dan Slott has been writing Spider-Man for a decade now; how is he still this bad? He showed such promise with the aforementioned Spider-Man and The Human Torch mini-series, but he has fumbled the ball in nearly every way since becoming the regular writer, only having a few worthwhile stories after so long.

What are your favorite and least favorite Spidey stories of 2017?
I think you just described everything that I felt in regards to Spider-Man this year.
I would have never thought that I would be putting Spec in my favorite of the year after reading the first 3 to 4 issues. Chip made a turn around that I have never seen before and hopefully he continues to do so in 2018.

Meanwhile all I can say about Dan Slott is that 2017 was they year that proved once and for all that He, Dan Slott, does not like Peter Parker. I would even go as far and say that he despises the character.
The only character that he is interested in writing is Doctor Octopus. I came to the conclusion this year that Doc Ock is Dan Slott's avatar of the Marvel Universe. Nothing ever goes wrong for the character and even if he does something horrible he is still regarded as a good individual.

I think that when Dan Slott is fired from Amazing Spider-Man I can safely say that Dan Slott IS the worst Spider-Man writer. He does want what is best for the franchise, all he wants is what suits him better and the franchise could go screw itsself.
Such as Slott replacing numerous characters from Peter's original supporting cast or outright shipping them off to other books. Giving us status quos that goes against the chore of the character.
And most importantly making Peter Parker look at its worst than ever before. Peter Parker under Slott never maneges to make a victory or even defeat one of his own villains without the assistance of one of Slott's pet creations.

Under Slott, Peter was emascualted to a point where no one can take him serius because I don't think offering the main character to dress himself in a maids outfit to another villain is very masculine or even making him wear the "Ask me about my feminist agenda"!.
Under Slott, Peter was made to look stupid and irresponsible. The first image that we got from Peter when he returned to ASM was Peter in web diapers. One of the most marking scenes of Peter being the worst CEO ever is when he RAN AWAY form a Billion DOLLAR Contract.

I think it's fair to say that 2017 was not a good year for Spider-Man/Peter Parker but even more so to Marvel given how much they have lost in this year due to their tactics and their agendas.

However I think 2018 is looking up to Spider-Man with the recent rumor that Dan Slott might finally be fired from Marvel and them finally undoing One More Day. And hopefully for Marvel, they start to get back on their feet and tell good stories again.

With all of that being said I would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year! Thank you all for all conversations that everyone here shared with me and thank for the Crawspace for their efforts in giving us great Spider-Man content and comentary that we can all enjoy!

[smilie=spidey_cheers.gif]

PS : Now here goes this year in stupid from Sargon of Akaad!

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Masked Guy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:35 pm

MRstarkiller360 wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:23 pm
Masked Guy wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:24 pm
With 2017 quickly coming to an end, I figured it would be a good time to discuss the best and worst Spider-Man comics to come out this year. 2017 was a pretty terrible year for Marvel comics overall, but don't just take my word for it:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... cs-1070616
Unfortunately, Spider-Man very much ended up being caught in the storm of awfulness. Dan Slott's run on AMAZING continued its downward spiral, Chip Zdarsky put out some truly terrible issue of SPECTACULAR early on and even RENEW YOUR VOWS lost quite a bit of steam as the year wore on.

But not everything was bad.


BEST STORY OF 2017:

My Dinner with Jonah (SPECTACULAR vol. 3 #6)

This comic was definitely the biggest surprise of the year. As previously mentioned the first five issues of SPECTACULAR done by Chip Zdarsky were dreadful. Dragging plots, dull action, painfully unfunny humor and mediocre artwork all served to start Volume 3 of this title on a horrible foot. I had just about given up on the title until this issue hit.

Going into it, I expected more forced, obnoxious jokes with no depth whatsoever. I was very glad to be wrong. Zdarsky managed to delve into the psyche of J. Jonah Jameson better than just about any other writer has before (excluding perhaps Marv Wolfman and Peter David). At first, it was very satisfying to see Spidey call Jonah out on his hypocrisy and (at times) stupidity, but that quickly changed as Jonah began to break down. Here, you truly came to understand that Jonah was a very broken man who had absolutely nothing left in his life other than his hatred of Spider-Man. At this point, Jonah is desperately clinging to that loathing because he really has lost everything else. Stellar drama and characterization all around.

Spidey unmasking to Jonah may be questionable, but you can't deny that it has opened some very intriguing story opportunities. I for one am eager to see how far this will go.


WORST STORY OF 2017:

The Fall of Parker (AMAZING vol. 1 #789-791)

If you (like me) were vaguely hoping that Dan Slott's run might improve somewhat with the collapse of Parker Industries and the launch of LEGACY, this story pretty much snuffed out that faint glimmer of hope forever. Aside from Power Play (AMAZING vol. 4 #12-15), this might just be Slott's worst work to date.

First of all, I am absolutely sick of Peter Parker being portrayed as an inept loser. He just lost his company and instead of trying to make amends or search for a job, he instead sulks around his girlfriend's apartment feeling sorry for himself while wearing her "Ask Me About My Feminist Agenda" t-shirt (ugh). Peter was an absolutely inept CEO who had nothing to do with the success of his own company (see vol. 4 #29 for a reminder of this fact) and now he's a moping little man-child who needs his girlfriend to tell him to wake up and go get a job. And then later, he needs said girlfriend to save him from Grifter because Spidey has become so incompetent that he can't even bring down a D-list joke villain on his own. And while we're on the subject, Peter contains little to no chemistry with Bobbi Morse/Mockingbird. Bobbi even comes off as more annoyed and even disgusted with Peter when she has to tell Peter to wake up and get a job, labels her food telling him he can't eat it and sticks a humiliating newspaper article of him to the refrigerator with magnets spelling out "HA HA". I'm sorry, why should we like seeing these two together again?

Peter also decides it's more productive to ditch is best friend (who is only trying to help him) so he can avoid responsibility for all the jobs he's ruined by doing mundane things like helping old ladies with their groceries, moving parked cars, taking selfies with people and playing jump-rope with children. Good to see Peter knows where his priorities lie. Then we're treated to yet another dumb and pointless fight sequence between Spidey and The Human Torch (as if the first in vol. 4 #3 wasn't bad enough) because the two of them are apparently idiots who are incapable of talking things out like reasonable adults and friends. How on Earth is this the same guy who wrote the excellent Spider-Man and The Human Torch mini-series twelve years back? And to top this all off, we get an extended appearance and conflict with the character hardly anyone actually cares about, Clash. Seriously, is anyone interested in him at all?

Lastly, you have the final issue of this dumpster fire that only serves to highlight how unlikable Mockingbird is and makes you question why Peter would even be with her. Bobbi giving a lecture on how trying to design a machine with a male voice is "suppressing the female voice" is political Tumblr garbage that Slott should feel embarrassed for writing. And how about her scolding Peter for daring to assume that the big sand villain is a man? Spidey may have fought the Sandman way more often than Sandstorm (whom he only encountered once), but there's clearly some underlying sexism her, right? No. This political nonsense is a big reason Marvel comics tanked so heavily this year-- on top of the comics themselves being incredibly boring and uninteresting-- kind of like this one.

Stuart Immonen's artwork is the only positive thing in this entire arc. Dan Slott has been writing Spider-Man for a decade now; how is he still this bad? He showed such promise with the aforementioned Spider-Man and The Human Torch mini-series, but he has fumbled the ball in nearly every way since becoming the regular writer, only having a few worthwhile stories after so long.

What are your favorite and least favorite Spidey stories of 2017?
I think you just described everything that I felt in regards to Spider-Man this year.
I would have never thought that I would be putting Spec in my favorite of the year after reading the first 3 to 4 issues. Chip made a turn around that I have never seen before and hopefully he continues to do so in 2018.

Meanwhile all I can say about Dan Slott is that 2017 was they year that proved once and for all that He, Dan Slott, does not like Peter Parker. I would even go as far and say that he despises the character.
The only character that he is interested in writing is Doctor Octopus. I came to the conclusion this year that Doc Ock is Dan Slott's avatar of the Marvel Universe. Nothing ever goes wrong for the character and even if he does something horrible he is still regarded as a good individual.

I think that when Dan Slott is fired from Amazing Spider-Man I can safely say that Dan Slott IS the worst Spider-Man writer. He does want what is best for the franchise, all he wants is what suits him better and the franchise could go screw itsself.
Such as Slott replacing numerous characters from Peter's original supporting cast or outright shipping them off to other books. Giving us status quos that goes against the chore of the character.
And most importantly making Peter Parker look at its worst than ever before. Peter Parker under Slott never maneges to make a victory or even defeat one of his own villains without the assistance of one of Slott's pet creations.

Under Slott, Peter was emascualted to a point where no one can take him serius because I don't think offering the main character to dress himself in a maids outfit to another villain is very masculine or even making him wear the "Ask me about my feminist agenda"!.
Under Slott, Peter was made to look stupid and irresponsible. The first image that we got from Peter when he returned to ASM was Peter in web diapers. One of the most marking scenes of Peter being the worst CEO ever is when he RAN AWAY form a Billion DOLLAR Contract.

I think it's fair to say that 2017 was not a good year for Spider-Man/Peter Parker but even more so to Marvel given how much they have lost in this year due to their tactics and their agendas.

However I think 2018 is looking up to Spider-Man with the recent rumor that Dan Slott might finally be fired from Marvel and them finally undoing One More Day. And hopefully for Marvel, they start to get back on their feet and tell good stories again.

With all of that being said I would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year! Thank you all for all conversations that everyone here shared with me and thank for the Crawspace for their efforts in giving us great Spider-Man content and comentary that we can all enjoy!

[smilie=spidey_cheers.gif]

PS : Now here goes this year in stupid from Sargon of Akaad!
Slott likes to brag about how much he loves the character and what a huge fan he is, but his writing rarely ever conveys that. I don't know if it's because he secretly despises the character (which is unlikely), but rather because he just isn't a good writer and doesn't really understand what makes the character popular. For ten years now, Slott has seemed to believe that seeing Peter Parker fail continuously and constantly being miserable is what makes him fun. While it's true that Peter is always having a difficult time with life in some manner or another, he would usually grow from his mistakes and experiences to better himself. I honestly can't think of any personal growth the character has experienced under Slott's tenure.

"But he became a global CEO!"

Because of Doctor Octopus, not his own efforts. Throughout all of Volume 4, Peter was shown to be very incompetent at his job, with his employees constantly chastising him and warning that his actions will harm the company. Peter never listens to them though and continues down his self-destructive path. It's even revealed in issue #29 that Ock manipulated the stock market to make Parker Industries a success. So in the end, Peter really accomplished nothing on his own.

This is but one of many reasons I think Slott is a bad writer.

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Cheesedique » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:41 pm

MRstarkiller360 wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:23 pm
I think you just described everything that I felt in regards to Spider-Man this year.
I would have never thought that I would be putting Spec in my favorite of the year after reading the first 3 to 4 issues. Chip made a turn around that I have never seen before and hopefully he continues to do so in 2018.

Meanwhile all I can say about Dan Slott is that 2017 was they year that proved once and for all that He, Dan Slott, does not like Peter Parker. I would even go as far and say that he despises the character.
The only character that he is interested in writing is Doctor Octopus. I came to the conclusion this year that Doc Ock is Dan Slott's avatar of the Marvel Universe. Nothing ever goes wrong for the character and even if he does something horrible he is still regarded as a good individual.

I think that when Dan Slott is fired from Amazing Spider-Man I can safely say that Dan Slott IS the worst Spider-Man writer. He does want what is best for the franchise, all he wants is what suits him better and the franchise could go screw itsself.
Such as Slott replacing numerous characters from Peter's original supporting cast or outright shipping them off to other books. Giving us status quos that goes against the chore of the character.
And most importantly making Peter Parker look at its worst than ever before. Peter Parker under Slott never maneges to make a victory or even defeat one of his own villains without the assistance of one of Slott's pet creations.

Under Slott, Peter was emascualted to a point where no one can take him serius because I don't think offering the main character to dress himself in a maids outfit to another villain is very masculine or even making him wear the "Ask me about my feminist agenda"!.
Under Slott, Peter was made to look stupid and irresponsible. The first image that we got from Peter when he returned to ASM was Peter in web diapers. One of the most marking scenes of Peter being the worst CEO ever is when he RAN AWAY form a Billion DOLLAR Contract.

I think it's fair to say that 2017 was not a good year for Spider-Man/Peter Parker but even more so to Marvel given how much they have lost in this year due to their tactics and their agendas.

However I think 2018 is looking up to Spider-Man with the recent rumor that Dan Slott might finally be fired from Marvel and them finally undoing One More Day. And hopefully for Marvel, they start to get back on their feet and tell good stories again.
Masked Guy wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:35 pm
Slott likes to brag about how much he loves the character and what a huge fan he is, but his writing rarely ever conveys that. I don't know if it's because he secretly despises the character (which is unlikely), but rather because he just isn't a good writer and doesn't really understand what makes the character popular. For ten years now, Slott has seemed to believe that seeing Peter Parker fail continuously and constantly being miserable is what makes him fun. While it's true that Peter is always having a difficult time with life in some manner or another, he would usually grow from his mistakes and experiences to better himself. I honestly can't think of any personal growth the character has experienced under Slott's tenure.

"But he became a global CEO!"

Because of Doctor Octopus, not his own efforts. Throughout all of Volume 4, Peter was shown to be very incompetent at his job, with his employees constantly chastising him and warning that his actions will harm the company. Peter never listens to them though and continues down his self-destructive path. It's even revealed in issue #29 that Ock manipulated the stock market to make Parker Industries a success. So in the end, Peter really accomplished nothing on his own.

This is but one of many reasons I think Slott is a bad writer.
In fairness, we talk a lot of crap about slott, much of it deserved. But I think with the web diaper, the offering to put on an apron for Maniac, and even the feminist agenda T-shirt, it really seems as if slott thinks he's being funny or having a laugh at Peter's expense. Because that's how he thinks it's done.

Nevermind that just as much humor, and better humor, can be wrung from the situations Peter finds himself in as Spider-Man (something PAD always excelled at). I don't think he gets that we don't always unceasingly want to see a Spider-Man that's the butt of a joke. He's constantly trying to re-write his version of "the Amazing Bag-Man".

And take Clonespiracy--it ticks every box of his bad habits as a writer.

Hobie is killed and replaced as a clone, and then literally walks on panel at the story's end and says "hey what did I miss?"

He kills Max Dillon to push his creation Francine Fry (who just about effortlessly kills Hobie within minutes of having her powers).

He brings back Ben Reilly as a raving lunatic villain, much like what he did to Phil Urich during Big Time.

He stuffs every issue of ASM during this too-long story with other character's stories, and makes it all another excuse to feature Doc Ock too prominently, and have Peter be nowhere to be found in his own book.

He has Kaine and Spider-Gwen, and Anna Maria, be the ones to do the leg-work to stop the zombie clone crap. What did Peter do for this entire story, besides be led around by the nose by Anubis-Ben?

He has Peter as Spidey initially tell Rhino, who's grieving at the thought of losing (clone) Oksana again, "not my problem".

To top it off, it's another story about clones. F#$#$* clones!

It's really a showcase for his worst instincts as a spider-writer.

It's frustrating because we've seen he can construct a coherent and good story when he wants to.

So slott has had his long turn at bat as the grand poobah of Spider-writers. The series will be better off with someone new at the helm. Hopefully we don't have to hear the words "dan slott" in the same sentence as Spider-Man anymore after the middle of next year (which admittedly seems like an eternity).

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Timmyb52 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:52 pm

IMHO...very little good came out of Marvel this year except for some decent Venom issues {not Venom Inc.},Star Wars,Darth Vader Vol.2, Spectacular and of course PAD's great job at fixing Ben in Scarlet Spider. Other than that...everything else has been crap in my eyes.
A new EIC in C.B. was one of the best moves Marvel has made in a long time...along with getting rid of unprofessional employees and very low-selling titles.
Let's hope that C.B. continues to right the Marvel ship and fix the issues we have all been complaining about for years now.

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Masked Guy » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:03 pm

Cheesedique wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:41 pm
MRstarkiller360 wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:23 pm
I think you just described everything that I felt in regards to Spider-Man this year.
I would have never thought that I would be putting Spec in my favorite of the year after reading the first 3 to 4 issues. Chip made a turn around that I have never seen before and hopefully he continues to do so in 2018.

Meanwhile all I can say about Dan Slott is that 2017 was they year that proved once and for all that He, Dan Slott, does not like Peter Parker. I would even go as far and say that he despises the character.
The only character that he is interested in writing is Doctor Octopus. I came to the conclusion this year that Doc Ock is Dan Slott's avatar of the Marvel Universe. Nothing ever goes wrong for the character and even if he does something horrible he is still regarded as a good individual.

I think that when Dan Slott is fired from Amazing Spider-Man I can safely say that Dan Slott IS the worst Spider-Man writer. He does want what is best for the franchise, all he wants is what suits him better and the franchise could go screw itsself.
Such as Slott replacing numerous characters from Peter's original supporting cast or outright shipping them off to other books. Giving us status quos that goes against the chore of the character.
And most importantly making Peter Parker look at its worst than ever before. Peter Parker under Slott never maneges to make a victory or even defeat one of his own villains without the assistance of one of Slott's pet creations.

Under Slott, Peter was emascualted to a point where no one can take him serius because I don't think offering the main character to dress himself in a maids outfit to another villain is very masculine or even making him wear the "Ask me about my feminist agenda"!.
Under Slott, Peter was made to look stupid and irresponsible. The first image that we got from Peter when he returned to ASM was Peter in web diapers. One of the most marking scenes of Peter being the worst CEO ever is when he RAN AWAY form a Billion DOLLAR Contract.

I think it's fair to say that 2017 was not a good year for Spider-Man/Peter Parker but even more so to Marvel given how much they have lost in this year due to their tactics and their agendas.

However I think 2018 is looking up to Spider-Man with the recent rumor that Dan Slott might finally be fired from Marvel and them finally undoing One More Day. And hopefully for Marvel, they start to get back on their feet and tell good stories again.
Masked Guy wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:35 pm
Slott likes to brag about how much he loves the character and what a huge fan he is, but his writing rarely ever conveys that. I don't know if it's because he secretly despises the character (which is unlikely), but rather because he just isn't a good writer and doesn't really understand what makes the character popular. For ten years now, Slott has seemed to believe that seeing Peter Parker fail continuously and constantly being miserable is what makes him fun. While it's true that Peter is always having a difficult time with life in some manner or another, he would usually grow from his mistakes and experiences to better himself. I honestly can't think of any personal growth the character has experienced under Slott's tenure.

"But he became a global CEO!"

Because of Doctor Octopus, not his own efforts. Throughout all of Volume 4, Peter was shown to be very incompetent at his job, with his employees constantly chastising him and warning that his actions will harm the company. Peter never listens to them though and continues down his self-destructive path. It's even revealed in issue #29 that Ock manipulated the stock market to make Parker Industries a success. So in the end, Peter really accomplished nothing on his own.

This is but one of many reasons I think Slott is a bad writer.
In fairness, we talk a lot of crap about slott, much of it deserved. But I think with the web diaper, the offering to put on an apron for Maniac, and even the feminist agenda T-shirt, it really seems as if slott thinks he's being funny or having a laugh at Peter's expense. Because that's how he thinks it's done.

Nevermind that just as much humor, and better humor, can be wrung from the situations Peter finds himself in as Spider-Man (something PAD always excelled at). I don't think he gets that we don't always unceasingly want to see a Spider-Man that's the butt of a joke. He's constantly trying to re-write his version of "the Amazing Bag-Man".

And take Clonespiracy--it ticks every box of his bad habits as a writer.

Hobie is killed and replaced as a clone, and then literally walks on panel at the story's end and says "hey what did I miss?"

He kills Max Dillon to push his creation Francine Fry (who just about effortlessly kills Hobie within minutes of having her powers).

He brings back Ben Reilly as a raving lunatic villain, much like what he did to Phil Urich during Big Time.

He stuffs every issue of ASM during this too-long story with other character's stories, and makes it all another excuse to feature Doc Ock too prominently, and have Peter be nowhere to be found in his own book.

He has Kaine and Spider-Gwen, and Anna Maria, be the ones to do the leg-work to stop the zombie clone crap. What did Peter do for this entire story, besides be led around by the nose by Anubis-Ben?

He has Peter as Spidey initially tell Rhino, who's grieving at the thought of losing (clone) Oksana again, "not my problem".

To top it off, it's another story about clones. F#$#$* clones!

It's really a showcase for his worst instincts as a spider-writer.

It's frustrating because we've seen he can construct a coherent and good story when he wants to.

So slott has had his long turn at bat as the grand poobah of Spider-writers. The series will be better off with someone new at the helm. Hopefully we don't have to hear the words "dan slott" in the same sentence as Spider-Man anymore after the middle of next year (which admittedly seems like an eternity).
Writers like Peter David and Roger Stern placed Spidey in humorous scenarios without making him into a pathetic joke. Every time Slott attempts to do something funny with Peter, he just ends up making him look pathetic. I know Slott is capable of effective humor based off of his top-notch work on Spider-Man and The Human Torch, but it rarely shines through on his succeeding stories.
Timmyb52 wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:52 pm
IMHO...very little good came out of Marvel this year except for some decent Venom issues {not Venom Inc.},Star Wars,Darth Vader Vol.2, Spectacular and of course PAD's great job at fixing Ben in Scarlet Spider. Other than that...everything else has been crap in my eyes.
A new EIC in C.B. was one of the best moves Marvel has made in a long time...along with getting rid of unprofessional employees and very low-selling titles.
Let's hope that C.B. continues to right the Marvel ship and fix the issues we have all been complaining about for years now.
So then what would you say was the worst story of the year, Timmy?

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Timmyb52 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:09 pm

Masked Guy wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:03 pm

So then what would you say was the worst story of the year, Timmy?
LOL...my bad Masked Guy!
I would have to say it was hands down Secret Empire with their whole Nazi Cap crap that still hasn't returned the real Steve Rogers back to us.Instead we have been given a doppelganger wanna-be created by Kobik. In my eyes...this is not the real Cap but was a cheap dues-ex-machina {OMD} cop-out by Marvel and Spencer.

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Masked Guy » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:58 am

Timmyb52 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:09 pm
Masked Guy wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:03 pm

So then what would you say was the worst story of the year, Timmy?
LOL...my bad Masked Guy!
I would have to say it was hands down Secret Empire with their whole Nazi Cap crap that still hasn't returned the real Steve Rogers back to us.Instead we have been given a doppelganger wanna-be created by Kobik. In my eyes...this is not the real Cap but was a cheap dues-ex-machina {OMD} cop-out by Marvel and Spencer.
I avoided Secret Empire due to its...less than stellar reputation, so I can't say. What did you think the worst Spider-Man story was this year?

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Spider-Padre » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:36 am

Based on reviews, I would say ASM #23 (01/17), the Clone Conspiracy Gwen Stacy story, was the worst. Gwen Stacy gets trotted out from the dead once more (and yet we know it isn't her), Peter rationally knows she isn't Gwen Stacy on one page, then abruptly decided she is Gwen Stacy on another page, she dies unnecessarily heroically (but did she?? I can't remember, did we actually see the bag of flour?). It was part of the over-all let-down of CC.

Even though Fall of Parker was lame because there was no suspense to it, and Peter's solution didn't make any sense given modern information-storage technology, Ock's attack on PI wasn't bad. I thought Clone Conspiracy was a whole 'nuther level of bad, because of the mega-distortion of Ben27 (who wasn't really Ben), and the tired presence of Gwendylclone. Peter's personal feelings about Gwen should be thoroughly resolved by now, and she should stay dead.

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by Masked Guy » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:48 pm

Spider-Padre wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:36 am
Based on reviews, I would say ASM #23 (01/17), the Clone Conspiracy Gwen Stacy story, was the worst. Gwen Stacy gets trotted out from the dead once more (and yet we know it isn't her), Peter rationally knows she isn't Gwen Stacy on one page, then abruptly decided she is Gwen Stacy on another page, she dies unnecessarily heroically (but did she?? I can't remember, did we actually see the bag of flour?). It was part of the over-all let-down of CC.

Even though Fall of Parker was lame because there was no suspense to it, and Peter's solution didn't make any sense given modern information-storage technology, Ock's attack on PI wasn't bad. I thought Clone Conspiracy was a whole 'nuther level of bad, because of the mega-distortion of Ben27 (who wasn't really Ben), and the tired presence of Gwendylclone. Peter's personal feelings about Gwen should be thoroughly resolved by now, and she should stay dead.
The Clone Conspiracy seems to be a popular candidate for worst story of 2017 and I can see why. Also, The Fall of Parker wasn't the story where Doc Ock attacks Parker Industries; it was the aftermath with Peter losing everything.

What would you say was the best Spidey story of 2017, Spider-Padre?

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Re: The Best & Worst of 2017

Post by MRstarkiller360 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:40 pm

Masked Guy wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:48 pm
The Clone Conspiracy seems to be a popular candidate for worst story of 2017 and I can see why. Also, The Fall of Parker wasn't the story where Doc Ock attacks Parker Industries; it was the aftermath with Peter losing everything.
Here is something to consider why Clone Conspiracy is the worst Spider-Man story of 2017 : Dan Slott re-wrote ASM #121 and made Gwen, the true Gwen Stacy, die hating Peter Parker.
So that would be yet another love interest of Peter Parker that hates him. Only this time, Gwen dies hating Peter Parker. To me this just looks like mean spirited coming from Slott.

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