Flash and Liz: Betrayal Between the Panels

One of the things I find interesting about Spider-Man’s supporting cast, is that these characters have such complicated dynamics that the subplot pages wind up being as interesting as the main story. However, subplot pages can only tell us so much and sometimes we’re left to wonder what the story is “between” the panels. Today I wanted to write about one “untold” story that has always had me curious. This is the story of Flash, Liz and Harry.

The story as presented on the panels: Flash and Liz date in high school. Liz disappears after graduation then comes back years later. Liz becomes engaged to Flash’s roommate Harry. Everyone is happy.

I’ve always found that highly suspect, but that’s the story we were given.

DISCLAIMER: Most of this editorial is my interpretation of events that occurred between the panels. I’m under no illusion that my interpretation is the only logical one or the canon one. There is room for other explanations and character interpretations. However, I will try to make a case for mine..

Before we get to Flash/Liz/Harry, let’s look at the history of Flash/Liz before Harry Osborn enters the story.

Flash and Liz dated for most of the high school days. After “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 12, Liz developed a crush on Peter, causing a strange status quo for Flash/Liz. Liz was still dating Flash , but made no secret to anyone around her (Flash included) that Peter was the true object of her affections. Their relationship was mostly portrayed as hostile as demonstrated in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 25 below.

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“The more she defends him, the more I hate him!!”

“Untold Tales of Spider-Man” published stories which took place during the high school time period. Even though they continued the thread of Liz’s crush on Peter, her relationship with Flash was portrayed in a friendlier matter. “Webspinners” showed that Peter was Liz’s first choice for a prom date, but she had a good time going with Flash and they were even crowned prom king and queen. Still, it was always clear that Flash’s feelings for Liz were larger than her feelings for him.

By the time the gang graduated, Liz wanted nothing to do with Peter or Flash. Before disappearing for a hundred issues (give or take), Liz makes one last appearance in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 30.

There is too much wrong with that scene to even get into. I suppose it’s best to remind myself that they are all teenagers, but seriously Flash, learn about boundaries.

The above scene is important to my narrative because it shows Flash’s inability to let Liz go.

This is the last we see of Liz until the Gerry Conway run many years later. We see her reunite with Peter but her reunion with Flash takes place in off-panel land (which readers of “Flash and Betty” should remember).

This is where I get curious. What is happening between the panels? Flash and Liz did not part on the best of terms and he was obviously still hung up on her. Whatever her reservations were in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 30, Liz has no issues taking a boat ride with Flash in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 134. It’s their first scene together since he was stalking her during the Ditko run.

Whatever happened with Flash and Liz happened between the panels. I imagine Peter or Mary Jane encouraged Liz to give Flash a chance to be her friend and that he had changed. Liz was probably surprised to hear that Peter and Flash were friends. Perhaps that helped persuade her that he had matured.

From then on, Flash and Liz were usually seen together, like in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 137.

This comic is dated. Very dated. Liz what are you wearing? Are the leafs on her pants glowing with gamma rays?

Flash and Liz are also seen together in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 143.

Notice how Peter invites them together. Nothing unusual about that, as it’s the same thing he would have done if Flash had been with Randy or Ned. However, it further establishes Flash and Liz during this era as a twosome, albeit a platonic one.

But is that what Flash is thinking?

I’m sure Liz made it very clear that she and Flash were not getting back together if the subject ever came up. Flash hasn’t always been good at reading signals when it comes to the opposite sex (see his relationship with Gwen post-army). I’m sure he heard what Liz was saying, but secretly hoped that spending time together one on one, and demonstrating how much he’s matured might change her mind. Perhaps Flash even fell in love with her all over again when they were spending all this time together. Maybe he thought he and Liz were heading down a road where the destination was romance. I wouldn’t be surprised if Liz secretly entertained the idea as well.

Flash renews another old friendship when Harry Osborn is released from the mental hospital. In “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 152 they have an announcement for Peter.

Flash doesn’t need a roommate for financial reasons. He lived in the apartment by himself before Peter moved in and has spent some time alone there since Peter moved into the Chelsea apartment.

Flash is lonely and needs a friend. He’s no longer “Big Man on Campus” or “War Hero”. In the past few years he’s left the army and had to deal with the death of Gwen Stacy. He needs a companion and someone he could trust.

Cut to “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 157 where Flash’s roommate betrays him.

WOW! Just wow….so cold.

Flash see’s Liz and immediately flirts with her. LIZ IGNORES HIM. Then she asks Harry out in front of Flash. Then both of them leave WITHOUT HAVING THE DECENCY TO SAY GOODBYE TO FLASH.

Couldn’t Liz have been polite and asked Harry out when Flash wasn’t around?

Not only is Liz picking up another guy in front of Flash, but of all the men in the Marvel Universe, she had to pick Flash’s roommate. HIS ROOMMATE!

This is Betty Brant level evilness.

I think Harry is too socially awkward and clueless to realize what he’s doing. That doesn’t make it right. Liz should know better though. It’s almost enough to make me speculate that Liz is mad at Flash for some reason and is doing this to prove a point to him.

This scene always puzzled me. Follow the sequence of events. Flash and Liz break up. Liz returns years later and spends one on one time with Flash regularly. Perhaps Flash hopes they’ll get back together. Liz then walks off with Flash’s roommate and begins to date him.

For the next dozen issues we’re shown various subplot pages of Harry and Liz’s blossoming relationship. This makes for a very strange status quo in the Osborn/Thompson apartment. Harry is dating his roommate’s ex-girlfriend. His roommate’s high school sweetheart. How was this not awkward?

Peter hasn’t graduated college yet, so it’s not like the Flash/Liz romance is ancient history. I’d estimate that it’s been about three years Marvel time since they broke up.

Does Harry know Flash and Liz’s history? He wasn’t around for the high school days and perhaps people underplayed how serious they were. Liz probably wrote it off to Harry as a couple of dates.

I won’t speculate what Harry and Liz saw in eachother and why their romance was so whirlwind. The great JR already did an excellent job in his “Goblin Prince” series and he’s a tough act to follow.

Hurt by Liz and Harry, Flash’s confidence get’s a pick me up when Mary Jane Watson asks him on a date in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 162.

Mary Jane doesn’t even consider Flash’s feelings here. He’s merely a tool to make Peter jealous. Hasn’t Flash been through enough?

Poor Flash realizes the truth in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 165.

“Now I think I’m gonna go have a little chat with our dear Ms. Watson.” That line always scared the heck out of me. Especially when we see Mary Jane’s reaction later.

Poor Flash. Imagine how it must feel for him to find out MJ wasn’t interested in him, but was only using him to punish Peter. Just when he was getting his self worth back. Liz goes for Harry and Mary Jane goes for Peter. Harry is dating his roommate and Peter is mad at him. It’s not a good week to be Flash Thompson.

BY THE WAY, it’s interesting to read Flash’s dialogue to Peter with Liz and Harry in mind…

“Listen, if I had known there was still a thing between you two, I would never have cut in.” Like Harry did to me.

“After all Pete you’re my friend aren’t ya?’ Unlike Harry who obviously doesn’t understand the rules of friendship.

The Harry/Liz romance continues to accelerate in “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 166.

In my personal canon, this has to be the night Flash’s drinking problem began.

Let’s over-analyze the scene. There are some hidden feelings behind Flash’s “I’m your room-mate and I even I don’t know” statement. I think some resentment or hurt feelings are slipping through when he says that. Why? As the subplot pages in Len Wein’s run demonstrate, Harry and Liz’s romance was fast. Flash saw less and less of his roommate and their friendship began to suffer. Remember, he originally asked Harry to move in with him not for financial reasons, but because Flash needed the companionship. Now Harry is spending all his time with Liz and Flash is left in the cold. From Flash’s perspective not sharing the “big surprise” with him beforehand is very hurtful. Shouldn’t a roommate be privy to major life decisions?

To add insult to injury Harry tells Flash he’s going to have to find another roommate. I’m sure Harry doesn’t know any better, but phrasing it like that was not what Flash needed. Harry was Flash’s friend and Liz took him away from him. Liz was another companion of Flash’s who he now lost to Harry.

It’s not a great night to be Flash Thompson.

If Flash’s hints of emotional problems weren’t clear enough, he’s now telling Harry and Liz he needs therapy.

I wonder how Flash wound up hanging out with Harry and Liz. Perhaps he thought he and Harry were finally going out for some guy time than at the last minute he got a “You don’t mind if Liz comes do you?” and then Flash spent the rest of the night feeling like a third wheel. To make matters worse, the couple partially responsible for his mental anguish is asking him why he’s blue. Notice how as soon as Harry starts gushing about his new fiancee, Flash interrupts to see if they could leave.

By the way, could they have been a bit more subtle about foreshadowing Dr. Hamilton’s future super villain career? I’m surprised he isn’t twirling his mustache in that panel!

If Flash’s love life wasn’t miserable enough, over in “Spectacular Spider-Man” readers were shown subplot pages of Flash running into Sha Shan at an Asian restaurant. He hadn’t seen her since the Stan Lee run when she returned to Vietnam. She isn’t happy to see him and subsequent visits to the restaurant to track her down haven’t worked out well.

Finally Flash finds and confronts her in “Spectacular Spider-Man” issue 8.
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We’re dealing with Marvel time here, which means that most of the events I have recapped occurred within a short timeframe. Let’s pretend that everything from “Amazing Spider-Man” issue 157 to “Spectacular Spider-Man” issue 8 take place within a few weeks. This means that in the span of a few weeks…

1) Liz Allan, the girl Flash wanted for years, rejected him for his roommate. They dated and were very affectionate to his face. Than his roommate said he was leaving him so he and Liz could get married.

2) Mary Jane boosts Flash’s confidence by dating him, only for him to learn she was just using him as pawn to mess with Peter.

3) Sha Shan, another woman from his past, returns and she too rejects Flash revealing that she’s married.

It’s not a good month to be Flash Thompson.

Eventually it turns out alright and Flash gets his happy ending with Sha Shan (until he screws that up). The odd thing is, for most of the late 70’s and early 80’s we always see Liz/Harry and Flash/Sha Shan double dating.

“Spectacular Spider-Man” issue 78 is one example.

Now they’re double dating!

Does Flash die a bit inside when he see’s Liz blow in Harry’s ear? Does Liz feel funny seeing Sha Shan kiss Flash?

As I mentioned in my disclaimer, it’s possible that Harry/Liz didn’t destroy Flash. Perhaps Flash really did put all his feelings for Liz behind him when she returned. But I’ve always wondered……

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7 Comments

Ryo Vie says:

December 17, 2012 at 8:11 am

An absolutely fantastic article! I love the dissecting of little scenes to reveal your thoughts of what happened between the panels. And of course, I love that you slipped in a dig at poor Betty Brant. GREAT JOB Bertone… would love to see more of these in the future.
fantasyfreak says:

December 16, 2012 at 2:56 pm

Awesome Bertone! 😀 Can´t wait to see more.
BD says:

December 16, 2012 at 4:11 am

Great article as usual and I hope to see more. I can’t imagine how long these took to research. I haven’t read these issues since I was a kid and I just skimmed over the Flash parts to get to the Peter parts. It’s fun to re-read these as an adult.
ASM fan says:

December 14, 2012 at 8:09 pm

Andru is my favorite ASM artist. Love Romita, but Andru is special. RIP!
Bertone says:

December 14, 2012 at 3:17 pm

@Al,

I’m paraphrasing but when Peter saw MJ later he says something like “Flash really layed into you” and MJ acknowledges that he did with her down low.
Donovan Grant says:

December 14, 2012 at 2:43 pm

That panel of Peter meeting Liz at the boat is the ultimate reason why I’m not nearly th fan of Ross Andru as a lot of people are. He makes Peter look way too hunky for my tastes. Romita gets flak for that, but Andru made him look like a movie star.
Big Al says:

December 14, 2012 at 2:05 pm

Cool to see some new articles from you Bertone. BTW what exactly was MJ’s reaction later?