OK folks, if you are like me and you saw “Tie-In” and thought you’d skip this issue, then think again! This issue has major Kindred ID reveal (though if you read Alford Notes you knew already!). Strap in folks! This issue takes multiple readings and a little Cobwebs-esque research!
Credit Where Credit Is Due
Story Title: Absolute Carnage Part One
Writer: Nick Spencer
Penciler: Ryan Ottley
Inker: Cliff Rathburn
Colorist: Nathan Fairbairn
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramanga
Cover Artist: Ryan Ottley and Nathan Fairbairn
Asst. Editor: Kathleen Wisneki
Editor: Nick Lowe
Published: Sept. 25, 2019
Remedial ASM 101
Spider-Man, while fighting in the Secret Wars (the real one), brought an alien symbiote back to earth and has had trouble with it and its offspring ever since. Kindred is an insect loving hell entity bound to make Peter miserable. Carnage wants to get that little piece of symbiote DNA (called a codex) that exists in everyone who has ever worn a symbiote (basically every person this side of Lonesome Pinky in the Marvel Universe).
The Story – Pay Attention, This Will Be on the Test
We have two stories that at first glance don’t seem like they go together. Story one – Norman is in full Carnage mode and trying to kill Dylan Brock (Venom’s love child) and Normie Osborn (the child that Harry said at one time he goes for weeks without thinking about). Spidey is in the way. Story two – Kindred is looking at Norman and remembering a special moment in his life. Peter is also remembering it during his fight with Norman.
What Passed and Failed
Pass – Tie-in – I was not interested in a symbiote tie-in. I loved this issue because it was all about Kindred. However, if I was looking for a great symbiote story, I would not be happy that I bought this book.
Pass – Well timed jokes – There is not a lot of room in this story for as BD puts it – the funny. But there a few moments carefully crafted in order to break the otherwise tense mood that prevails throughout the book.
Pass – The recap – I thought that the few pages we got to catch up readers on all the different storylines this is pulling from were well done, though moving from Mysterio to the insane asylum was a tad confusing.
Fail – The onomatopoeia – Sorry Evan.
OOTI (Onomatopoeia of the Issue)
On a scale of 1 (POW) to 10 (BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB), DING DONG rates a 1.
Analysis
As far as an Absolute Carnage tie-in goes, this did very little to bring me into that story other than explain to me why Carnage is going after everyone. I assume that when we are done with this story, there will be no more pieces of symbiote in everyone and we will go back to just Venom and Carnage. Maybe not. I don’t care. I do, however, want someone who is loving the Absolute Carnage to tell me in the comments why I should be more interested in it.
Now to the real story – Kindred.
Let’s take a shot at the storytelling timeline – it’s messed up. We have two options – one, there are two individuals that look like Norman, one in the insane asylum and the other in the Carnage symbiote. That’s what a straight forward reading makes it out to be. I think, however, we should look at the timing much like Spencer’s ending to Hunted. Why would Spencer write in this confusing way? I’m not sure. It may be that he wanted you to doubt it was really Norman that Spidey was facing all along or I might be that he just wanted to parallel Kindred’s memory of the party with Peter’s memory of the party. It is this last part that I think is most likely here.
I’ve been tracking as many clues about Kindred’s identity for quite a while now. Here is what we have:
- Kindred is male
- He is well educated
- He died at some point
- He gained demonic powers and escaped hell sometime around 2006 in our time
- He knows Peter very well
- He is concerned about Peter’s supporting cast
- He has a personal grudge against Peter
- He is angsty about how others have mistreated him
- He feels that he lives life in someone else’s shadow
Now we can add to this – He was present at Harry’s return from rehab surprise party and he is connected to Norman.
We start by Kindred talking to Norman in the insane asylum.
It is clear from his speech that Norman did a number on him. This matches up with the comment made by Mendel Stromm that he also knew what it was like to live in someone else’s shadow. Like Stromm, that shadow was cast on Kindred by Norman.
He mentions:
- Norman used to laugh when he kicked and screamed
- Norman was terrifying in or out of mask, especially his laugh
Peter begins to remember Harry’s surprise party and eventually Peter’s caption box (lined in red) turns into Kindred’s caption box (but only after Harry arrives). Feel free to go back to Amazing Spider-Man #105 and check out the original party. The dialogue is very similar and in some cases exact. I think the differences in the dialogue can be attributed to memory filtering and adding as well as saying that these things were said, but not shown.
This means we know Kindred was at the party. So who was in attendance? Both issues show the same people – Aunt May, Peter Parker, Randy Robinson, Gwen Stacy, Flash Thompson, Mary Jane Watson, Harry Osborn, and Norman Osborn.
During the party, Gwen was hitting hard on Flash, much to Peter’s irritation and MJ is hitting on Peter. Don’t tell me that Harry didn’t notice. Remember, this is right after Harry almost died from a drug overdose. What did Peter do when Harry called out to him during that OD? Walked out of the apartment. So there I a reasonable amount of issues for Harry to resent Peter here during this time.
At the moment, though Kindred focuses on this scene – Right after Gwen says, “It’s nice all of us together again,” someone says, “It’s too good to be true.”
Hard to tell in the original, but Kindred is talking to Norman in our current issue and he says, “Do you remember what YOU said next?” Our pal Kindred is looking at that as his father being prophetic.
OK, so Harry fits all of the above ten clues. I know what you are thinking – Harry is alive! Well, he wasn’t always. He died in Spectacular Spider-Man #200, written by J.M. DeMatteis, one of Spencer’s favorite Spider-Man writers. So let’s say that he dies having forgiven Peter. He leaves Peter to take care of his family. How good of a job does Peter do? How would watching that while being tortured make you feel about Peter? What if you were able to return to life after working your way up through the ranks of hell out of pure bitterness and used Peter’s deal with Mephisto to undo his marriage (his marriage to the girl that Harry used to love and lost to Peter) and when you do, you work your way back into to Peter’s life. Maybe you are trying to gauge if you read him wrong. Well, how do you the reader feel about Peter Parker’s worthiness since he gave up the marriage?
And because this issue just keeps on giving, we get this scene:
The HE in the word balloons here is Peter. The YOU is Norman. I think what we are seeing here is Harry trying to kill two birds with one stone. He can finally prove that he is worthy or even better than his father and he can strike back at Peter for failing him. He says he wants to be thing that Peter sees in his nightmares and we know Harry had a thing for psychological warfare. That’s pretty messed up.
And because someone will bring it up, I think we are to understand that Normie did not get a good enough look at Peter’s face under than mask to recognize our beloved web head.
Whew! That’s a lot! And I didn’t even talk about that beat down that Norman gives Peter!
Extended Reading
If I am right about Harry, then you need to get the low down on all that is Harry. You should do this by going to JR’s old stomping grounds and read his Goblin Prince essay. Read all of the site if you have time, but if not, read Part Two at least and get a feeling for how bad a friend Peter Parker was/is to Harry.
Extra Credit
I put together a pretty thorough chart listing out what we need to figure in determining Kindred’s ID. Check it out and let me know what I missed or where you think I went wrong.
Mark Was Right!
Too early to print these? Should I go ahead and order 1,000 so that I would be ready for the rush?
If you think I’m wrong, let me know in the comments. Who do you think it is?
Final Grade
I got so much enjoyment reading this, researching the old party, and messaging Chi-Town and Negative Neil. For a comic to give me this much happiness, I have to give it an
A+
Your Turn
What grade do YOU give it?
What’s Next?
ABSOLUTE CARNAGE TIE-IN!
Everyone who has ever worn the Carnage Symbiote has a Codex, including Norman Osborn from his time as the Red Goblin! Can Spider-Man save Norman from Carnage? Does he want to?
WHAT OTHER SURPRISES ARE HELD HERE? MANY!!!
Nick Lowe has asked people to let the Spider office know how they are doing by sending an email to spideyoffice@marvel.com and to make sure you mark it “OK to print”. If you get published, make sure to draw our attention to it!
‘Nuff Said!
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@Jack Brooks – It could be Ned, but I don’t think he is a good match for the following clues:
– Kindred has an obsession with Norman
– It seems that Kindred was at the party for Flash (Ned was not)
– Kindred mentions that he knows what it is like to always be in someone’s shadow
-Kindred has a personal grudge against Ned – Ned and Peter always rubbed each other the wrong way, but I wouldn’t say it was a deep bitter grudge.
But he does seem to fit a lot of the other clues. So it may be that I am putting too much emphasis on the above clues or that they are purposely misleading, but have a different connection than what I am thinking.
I believe I remember you being a Ned is Kindred supporter from the get go, so maybe you’re right! But I’m sticking with Harry for now. 🙂
Is there any reason why it still can’t be Ned Leeds? He was kind of a second-stringer to the original group. And Clone Ned was terrified that Betty was in danger.
@Enigma_2099, ac, Ronny Fox, and everyone!
Enigma_2099 – We’ll see soon enough, I reckon. So you’re throwing out there not another Peter, but what was given up – the marriage, the children, the happiness, the responsibility – all of it? Interesting!
ac – Yeah. There doesn’t seem to be a great answer to ALL of the clues Kindred is giving us, which does lead to the potential that there is more than one Kindred. I thought that long ago when we kept seeing him looking a little different each time he made an appearance, but I think that was just inconsistencies in the coloring and art. So Kindred has a little apartment in Queens with a breakfast nook and a closet full of slightly different trench coats all slightly different colors and in different states of wear and tear. At least that is what I’ve decided to envision.
Ronny Fox – What if it is not two Harrys running around, but rather the same one and the bandages are only used to cover his identity, not to cover his hideously scarred and tortured face? Of course, the soul of the child taken by Mephisto does have some merit. It would be the darkest villain for a Spider-Man story ever.
Got to say to everyone out there – I am really enjoying the level of conversation this issue has produced! If I had not given it an A+ already, I would go back and change my grade!
@Evan and Danny Dement
Evan – What about Lily’s child with Norman artificially aged, got with one of Norman’s children with Gwen, that child has aged, been brought back to the present and is inhabited by the soul of Norman. The real Norman actually is inhabited by the soul of Cletus. Would you like that? (In my mind, everyone hates it but ’90s fans who are saying that there needs to be a 15 part special event with die cut covers for this story and a cosmic Ghost Rider tie in).
You know what? We need to stop trying to figure out who Kindred is (mainly because I already did that) and start coming up with the worst possible reveal. We’ve already got one previously in the comments section here and now I’ve added mine. Anyone up for the challenge?
Danny Dement – Yeah, I feel that Peter should be (for the most part) over her. Of course there would still be moments of pain, but not to where he is crying out in his sleep repeatedly about that. My only way of approaching it so that it doesn’t bother me enough to take me out of the story is that he is not so much still hung up on Gwen as much as he is hung up on the fact that not only could he not save someone he loved, but that he was the one who snapped her neck. This fear of being responsible for the death of the one he loves resurfaces the closer he gets to MJ and manifests itself in his dreams. BUt I feel that I am having to connect too many dots to make that happen.
Then again, those who follow me know that I have no trouble adding in extra dots to make the story what I want it to be.
It would not make sence for it to be Harry as he had been with Liz, married and all. That would be too terrible story telling for him to reveal in anyway he was obsessed with mj this whole time. I think it is, as someone said, a manifestation of a child that would of came from pete and mjs marriage, taken by memphisto. His name is Kindred which literally means family, of kin. Would also make him the only one there at the party not seen and a lot of bad feelings.
@mark I forgot about the kingpin assistants. I can’t figure out a way to easily explain those deaths as not evil. or as something any version of peter would do regardless of the torture. Man it sure seems like it would be Harry, but there is something nagging me that it isn’t that easy…
I’m gonna take a wild swing here. And it’s gonna fly way out there. I think Kindred is the manifestation of what MJ and Peter gave up to save aunt May in OMD, given physical form. And of course that would explain how it was trapped in hell, seeing as how it was in the possession of Mephisto.
That’s my wild WTF guess.
The only thing I inherently disliked was the insistence on falling back on the whole “Peter can’t seem to get over Gwen” shtick, which is especially creepy to me now, given that there’s a Gwen pretty much the same age as the one he lost in his life. Almost makes the interest he seems to have taken in her take on a creepy vibe. I know they mean it to be more trauma than longing but… eh.
That might just be me, but I never liked it before, and I especially find it offputting now.
As for Kindred, I really don’t think it’s Harry. Having two “Harry’s” would simply be unnecessarily confusing.
@Mark — As long as Kindred isn’t Lily Hollister (or her unborn child with Norman — That happened, right?), I will be happy.
@ Evan and AC
@Evan – I believe that the deal with the devil will be addressed, and that maybe the deal helped to manifest Kindred, but I’m not in the camp that it is the deal or marriage personified. I do believe Spencer will deal with the deal before any lasting commitment is made between the two.
@AC – Two absolutely great ideas that have been nagging in the back of my brain. While the other appearances do not appear to be illusions (especially the murder of Kingpin’s assistants), the fact that his first appearance is tied to Mysterio and the first manifestations of his power is something that only Mysterio could see, I have wondered if this was all smoke and mirrors. I think there is enough other evidence, such as the talk with Norman and the killing of Kingpin’s assistants, that leads me enough away from that idea, but never out of sight. As far as Norman going after Normie, well, that bothers me some. But may this is one of those times that Harry goes for weeks without thinking of him! 🙂
So are there holes in my Harry theory? Maybe just a little… But I’m still holding to it! Can’t wait until the next Kindred issue!
@Jack Brooks – It would undo that repentance, but in my mind, Harry wobbled back and forth between his feelings toward Peter. It may be that Harry, in a moment of clarity, reconciles with Peter and trusts him to look after his family, but then while being tortured in hell, sees the crap that Peter’s life has done and watches as Liz and Normie struggles to make their lives work. He then grows bitter. It could also be that Mephisto is manipulating him and feeding that bitterness to cause more trouble for Peter. In which case, his repentance is not likely to last the bonds of eternity.
No, it is not set in stone that it must be someone from the six, but it sure seems likely that it was someone from that party. Someone to whom Norman’s existence meant a great deal. I guess it could be someone that, using the timeless effect of hell, watched that party demonically, but wasn’t there physically, but I think we are supposed to believe it is a person present.
Ned would be a better choice in my book if the whole clone thing hadn’t happened. He fits a lot of the clues, but they just established that the Lizard clone boy had the actual soul of Billy, so that would imply that Hobo Ned clone also had the sol of Ned. In my opinion, at least.
I was wrong once in my life. I may be again. 🙂
Just a thought to back the aspect of Peter theory, do we know for sure that Kindred actually killed? Could the whole Mysterio psycologist thing be an illusion? We know Mysterio has imagined things before, so this is within Kindred’s powerset, as far as we know. If memory serves, he killed Mendell Storm, but is this even really him, or a computer program, or what? I agree, if it’s an abandoned part of Peter he wouldn’t be off killing people, but maybe Kindred’s actual evil deeds can be explained away?
One anti Harry idea too. Would Harry stand around being Kindred when his son was in mortal danger from Carnage? Seems like he’d be less focused on Peter and more focused on that. If he were really Harry.
If it’s true that Peter will soon propose to Mary Jane and that they will get married sometime next year (See Neil’s earlier review), I am among the camp of Crawlspacers who think Kindred may have something to do with that aspect of “The Deal” that needs to be taken care of (a loose end of sorts) before next year’s marriage can move forward. Given Spencer’s prowess for addressing/repairing previous events in Slott’s run, this would be the ultimate elephant in the room if it were to go unreferenced at all, so I find it unlikely that it would.
However, having Harry be Kindred would completely undo his repentant, self-sacrificing turn when he died. Harry would go from saving his friend, to somebody who rips living, screaming people apart with giant loathsome insects. I suppose they could do that, but it seems a shame. Is it a for-sure thing that Kindred was a member of that original six (Peter, MJ, Gwen, Betty, Flash, Harry)? Could he be someone who knew them? Could it still be original Ned Leeds? Clone Ned Leeds was terrified that Betty was in terrible danger from someone.
@Yvonmukluk – You are right – it wasn’t until after the review was posted that I realized that the insane asylum was indeed during that Mysterio/brainwashed Mysterio issue. I guess a blew through the recap too quickly! I was eager to get to the Norman/Kindred stuff!
Re: Kindred, I think you maybe overlooked that him talking to Norman was I think explicitly defined as a flashback – we seem him kill Mysterio’s psychologist back in ASM #24, after all, and there’s even a caption specifying it happened two weeks ago.
I think you’re 100% right that it’s Harry, though, unless it’s the greatest fakeout of all time.
@Excalibur 2008 & Adam King – Both of these are good ideas!
Excalibur2008 – I have heard other theories of some manifestation of Peter or his character’s actions (most commonly the marriage), but I have not heard the Parker Luck manifestation theory yet. Interesting. I’m not jumping on that bandwagon, but I’ll be looking for some clues to support it nonetheless!
Adam King – I don’t think that is a ridiculous premise at all. I have on the chart an alternate Peter and by that I mean some form of clone or Peter that got dropped like the pre-OMD Peter or some other aspect. If it is not Harry, then I think it must be a Peter of some sort. I think I like your pre-Other Peter theory the best of all the Peter theories.
My biggest problem with it being a Peter is that most of the theories go with the premise that it is an earlier Peter so, therefore, is pretty much the *real* Peter as a way of addressing how screwed up Peter has been written in the past 20 years. But that would then make the real Peter just as screwed up for becoming this twisted villain. I’m sure there is another way of looking at it, though. I’m just enjoying the ride until the bandages come off. Too obvious at this point or not, I’m sticking with Harry.
This is probably not the case, but I just feel the need to throw it out there. Based off of the criteria you listed, could it be possible that Kindred is…..Peter???
Weird, I know. But let’s consider this. Peter DID die around 2006, in The Other. He turned into a spider monster, devoured Morlun, died, and was then reborn with silly new powers that the writers soon forgot or refused to write about.
What if, in the course of all the mystical mumbo jumbo, some aspect of Peter’s soul remained in hell, forced to watch Peter live on in the hopes that he would at least make his sacrifice worthwhile? It’s safe to say that Spider-Man’s jerkassery began shortly after that period, starting with Civil War and One More Day and getting worse and worse through Slott’s run. Shirking his responsibilities and selling his marriage to MJ may have been the catalyst that caused that part of Peter’s soul to become demonic. And now he’s determined to make Peter suffer for becoming such a massive screwup and, in his eyes, the very antithesis of what Uncle Ben would have wanted him to be.
I know, I know, it’s a ridiculous premise. But as much as I like the idea of Kindred being Harry, it just seems a bit too obvious.
A crack theory I have is that Kindred is in fact a personification of Parker Luck just becuase of the times it felt more like some eldritch being screwing Peter Park over in the most ridiculous over the top way possible.
@Big John & Adam B. Parker & Jack Brooks
Big John – I have to admit, the Black Cat clue is a sticking point to my theory. It is the only thing that is still worrying me (but not enough to halt that 1,000 shirt order!). You may be right, but the thing about it being Peter’s soul (or pre-OMD soul) is that it would be hard to reconcile the murdery villain nature of it, especially so close to the Ben Reilly/Jackal clone saga. If you are right (which you’re not), I will lead off my review with BIG JOHN WAS RIGHT! 🙂
Adam B. Parker – Good catch and I like that explanation, so while it is not as coveted as a Marvel No Prize, it is more rare – You get a genuine Crawlspace No Prize!
Jack Brooks – I need to get on the message boards more! I certainly fit into that discussion!
@William Sinclair & Evan
William – I’ve racked my brain to find someone else who could fit all these clues and unless it is some version of Peter, then I can think of anyone else who fits unless I’m really hoodwinked by one of the clues. However, like I said before, people out there are all over the place in their guess work still, so maybe Spencer doesn’t mind dropping so big a clue knowing that a lot of people still won’t get it. I’m betting once they get Norman’s codex out, he’ll be back to his old self.
Evan – OF COURSE MY STUDENTS LOVE ME! I am the best teacher ever!
On message board we have a theory that real Harry went to hell when he died as GG. Then Mephisto either swapped somebody out as Harry in OMD/BND, leaving the real Harry to work his way up and out, or Harry has secretly been Kindred this whole time and it’s just that now he’s chosen to start acting as Kindred.
Donny Cates, the Absolute Carnage writer admitted he messed up – he didn’t mean to have Spider-Man so openly say he was Normie’s god father. He messed up and editorial missed it.
I no prize it by saying Normie’s half asleep/in shock and not listening.
mmmmNope: Kindred is the Piece-of-Peter’s-Soul that Mephisto took in “One More Day,” the part that remembers things as they used to be. The way he reacts to Peter unmasking to Felicia, Kingpin’s terrified of him (because Peter beat Fisk within an inch of his life in “Back in Black”), he’s weirdly possessive of MJ, knows Peter’s mind, his name is “Kindred,” and with this whole issue with Norman…Yup, calling it now. #BigJohnwasright
Thanks Mark! Great review!
Sneaky Spencer, putting in one of the biggest hints to his ongoing mystery in a tie-in issue that *no one* expected to be important! It was a pleasant surprise opening my copy of the issue and seeing Kindred! I actually caught up on Absolute Carnage to better understand this issue before reading it (I think the storyline is just okay so far), but it seems that I really didn’t have to, the really important part of the issue was Kindred’s speech and the flashback. It was probably the most insight we’ve had into him as a character so far, and I too am 99% sure that he’s Harry now. The only other guess I have is a pre-OMD Peter Parker, but that feels like something of a stretch to be honest. If it isn’t Harry, Spencer is definitely using heavy bait and switch tactics, because I don’t think I could’ve gotten through the issue without thinking ‘it’s Harry!’
Also, I really hope they can undo Norman thinking he’s Cletus soon, it’s kind of painful seeing him like that. Considering how Spencer’s done a pretty great job of undoing a lot of the rubbish Slott wrote in his era, it’s a shame he’s been unable to undo his effects on Norman or Otto.
@Alexander Evangeli – I did not read Absolute Carnage #1, so I was no aware of that. I do not *think* Normie knows, but I cannot be certain.
Go to the head of the class, Alexander. I completely forgot the second OD and merged the two of them in my head as one. You are right. I freely admit when I make mistakes. I believe this is the second one in my life.
I think if Spencer wants this to be Harry, he will have no shortage of in-continuity stories to pull from. Your ideas are good ones. The Black Cat is a stumbling block. I don’t think it is a deal breaker, but it is one that I don’t feel as comfortable with.
Aunt May as Kindred. Brings a smile to my face!
So I did some looking around today at other websites that review ASM. Hardly anyone is talking about what the clues mean. When they do, it is usually just a generic, “There were many clues in this issue to Kindred’s identity,” and left it at that. One guy mentioned that he is sure that the giveaway is in this issue, but for the life of him, he couldn’t figure it out. Another guy said that issue was so boring and useless that if you were an ASM reader, you could skip it and not miss anything.
Bleeding Cool asked people to guess and they were all over the place – Gwen Stacy, Flash Thompson, Carlie Cooper, and Ned Leeds seemed to be the favorites there. CBR did list out Carlie and Gwen andHarry, but said that it was too obvious to be Harry and they were proposing a new idea that *nobody* has talked about – an alternate Peter Parker. Really CBR? Nobody is talking about that? Guess they don’t read the Crawlspace over there.
So now I’m not as concerned about it being too obvious so it can’t be the real answer. It seems that only a few of us are seeing these clues. The masses seem ignorant of them.
@ Evan – Now the idea of DING DONG being the kiss sound in going to be in my head every time there is a kiss in ASM from now on!
Some slight corrections Mark. Peter did walk out on Harry after a major drug OD, but that was later on from this party. Harry had 2 massive ODs, the first was in ASM #97 and the second was around ASM #121, Peter walked out on Harry in ASM #122.
I love the Harry theory and to go along with it consider that we’ve met post-humurous Harry imposters before. Remember Green Goblin V?????????? So you could retcon the current Harry as a clone or a shapeshifter convinced they are the real McCoy fairly easily.
The only thing that doesn’t quite fit is the Black Cat aspect but you could argue Harry hung out with her when she was dating Flash.
A counterpoint to the Harry theory from this issue though. Because of how the dialogue is laid out over the panels of the party it gives the impression (albeit not confirmation I will grant you) that Norman’s ‘it’s too good..’ dialogue was happening at the same time, as in he was saying it off to the side of the 5 youngsters.
The issue also presents the idea that Norman is scary because he represents the cruel realities of aging, that the gang (who were very young back then) were deluded in their optimism. So if Norman was saying their optimism was too good to last and it was meant in reference to their youth then it would make sense to me that he wasn’t saying it to any of them but rather someone else, someone who he thought could understand his POV because like him they were a mature adult too.
Who else like that was at the party…Aunt May.
Bonus point: Kindred refers to Peter and the gang as children but it seems like it’s in the present tense not back when they were young undergrads. That’s a slightly odd line for Harry to say but it makes a lot of sense from Aunt May to whom they will always seem like children. And the Kindred name would really fit her and she would have both understandable beef with Kingpin and sympathy for Mary Jane and Black Cat!
Also the issue was great the only thing that annoyed me was Peter blaming himself for Carnage and Venom. Michelinie actually did a whole story emphasizing that he did not feel guilt over their actions
Great post Mark but could you (or someone else) ellaborate on this point for me. You said Normie didn’t get a good enough look under Peter’s mask to tell it’s him, but back in Absolute Carnage #1 Peter is out loud in front of Normie referring to Normie as his Godson (or him as Normie’s Godfather I forget which).
Does Normie know or not? Because I wasn’t paying too much attention during Red Goblin so I’m wondering if I missed something
@Mark — Phew. I’m not a big fan of tie-in issues, either, but it looks like Nick Spencer had his story to tell, and it’s a testament to his writing ability and care for the characters that he did not let a Mighty Marvel Mandate stop him from telling it. Reading this review was very suspenseful for me when you were revisiting the old party — and that panel showing Kindred’s centipede tendril wrapped around the door handIe really creeped me out.
Also, I have to commend you on the chart that you made. Your students must love you (or hate you, depending upon how much into literature they are, I guess). You should send it to Marvel — Maybe they’ll publish it! We know they’ll publish it if Chi-Town sends it in, of course, but this time I bet you’ll get it. Great review!
@Mark — I haven’t read the whole article yet. I got to the onomatopoeia fail and thought I’d scroll down to the comments just to say that I thought for a moment that the “Ding Dong” was the sound it made when Peter kissed Aunt May.
I share the same concerns about this being too easy or too much of an arrow pointing to Harry. I first started thinking Harry back when Kindred was toying with Stromm. Then it was a wild long shot idea. All the clues since then pretty much left Harry in the running, but nothing over the top. Now we get over the top and there is a part of me that figures it must be misdirection. So while I still think it is Harry, here is some thoughts on how I could be misreading the clues.
1. I tried to read the scene to see if I could interpret the “he” and “you” in other ways, but those are pretty rock solid as he=Peter and you=Norman. However, the speaker could be a Peter of sorts and speaking of the other Peter in third person. I don’t think it fits as well, but it can be read that way. This would explain why we are getting some of Peter’s memories of the party before anyone else shows up, though I think it should be read that we start with Peter’s memories and move into Kindred’s with the caption box change.
2. I’m taking it as Kindred must have been at that party, but I guess that if Kindred has a mad-on for Norman and studied all his life, then we can assume that maybe he was able to see that scene in Norman’s life while in hell. This would remove Kindred from that scene.
That said, I think maybe we are getting close to the big reveal. It has been a year now, and maybe Spencer feels so comfortable giving us this much because most people will be saying, Harry? It can’t be Harry! He’s alive! I’m pretty interested in seeing what other people say here and in other reviews to see if I’m just too stuck on my theory and forcing the narrative.
Really enjoyed the issue. Whiles Miles Morales’ tie-in feel like something that will be quickly forgotten, Spencer made his tie-in essential reading.
There was a point in this issue I thought Spencer was going to reveal Kindred’s identity. Which is almost a problem. I had two suspects Ezekiel and Harry. This issue didn’t just remove Ezekiel, it removed almost every suspect who wasn’t at Harry’s party (as much as I wanted it to be Carly – I don’t think she’s riding behind the couch). The issue put a giant arrow above Harry’s head and said “Kindred?” If Spencer is not planning to reveal Kindred’s identity next issue, I think we have to put this down as misdirection. This is the part of the mystery where all the evidence points to the obvious suspect, but I’m expecting an act four twist. I just can’t see it being Flash, Gwen or Pre-OMD Peter.
You asked for reasons why people are liking Absolute Carnage, while I can only speak for myself. I made the mistake of thinking AC was a Spider-Man event. It isn’t. It’s a Venom event, once I realised that I really started liking what they were doing. I’ve been enjoying the story Cates and Stegman have been telling in the main Venom book about abusive relationships and dependency. This feels like the next chapter of that story. That being said I think Cates has a great voice for Peter. The canteen scene between Eddie and Peter in the first issue was great. AC and Amz have both mentioned how Peter blames himself for all Symbiote stuff, and Eddie is using that to his advantage, even though he knows all this would be happening no matter what and has made the choice not to tell Peter.
This was so much fun to read and examine with you, pal! I’m going to have to go on the side of Harry as well! This issue is an A+ for me too!
Great review and great issue! Will give it an A+ even though I think it’s tough to follow if you’re not reading Absolute Carnage and Venom. Both are cool so check them out. Eddie’s son Dylan is supposed to be 9 but since he was born after Eddie gained the symbiote I don’t buy that age. Makes zero sense if the current Heroic Age of the MCU is 10 or 15 years unless Eddie became Venom when Peter was in high school ot college. I’m going with Billy actually being 4 and the symbiote codex in his DNA makes him look and act about 9 and Eddie’s drunk and abusive dad who raised Dylan didn’t sweat the details. Just my own head canon there. Anywho –
I think Kindred is Harry too but I don’t know seems a little too easy to guess in this issue. I think Nick Spencer might be throwing us off the trail. I don’t have any guesses as to who else it could be though.