Alford Notes: ASM #53 – Last Remains part 4

41 Comments

1. The “Gotcha” remark wasn’t just a reference to ASM #389. I seem to recall Harry saying this at least one other time to Peter. Wasn’t there a giftbox from Harry that Peter opened that contained a card that said “GOTCHA”? I think that box was left to Peter in Harry’s will, and it temporarily made Peter think that Harry was still alive (crazy, I know, right?). I think there may have been another instance but I can’t remember. But “Gotcha” is definitely a Harry/Goblin catchprase.

2. I’m glad I’m not the only one who though this looked like Norman and not Harry.

3. Anyone feel like they don’t get their money’s worth from comics these days? I miss the good old days when a comic told a story and it took a good 30 minutes to read. This issue took me five minutes. I wasn’t even finished with my bedtime bathroom routine. *L*

4. @Evan – Well, all I can say is that I’m going to try and find a use for “bottom of your sock” as much as I can from now on! 🙂

5. @Mark — I said “bottom of your sock” in reference to Aqu@’s statement regarding the ambiguity of the comic’s setting: “…we still don’t know exactly what kind of supernatural powers Kindred has and where the story is happening (reality, astral plane, dreamscape, the bottom of my sock).”

   That’s where that came from. I didn’t want you thinking I was crazy or anything. 🙂

6. This issue was NOT what the solicits said it would be, but it was certainly interesting. OMD/BND was full of bad decisions, and this issue further solidfied that.

   Bagley’s Harry looks like Norman for some reason even though that was not the case when he drew the Osborns in Spider-Man: Life Story. I wonder if this is because of the fast release schedule.

7. @Evan Thank you, I was actually referring to my comment on Mark’s theory, but I appreciate it nonetheless.
   Ah, so I have to blame Kindred for all those holes in my socks!

   @Mark Glad to hear that you didn’t take it badly!
   Being a stubborn person myself, I respect your decision, but I have to say I find you a little less credible as a Hulk, now. :p

   Thank you both.
   So it’s worth it, spending two hours writing a short reply, if I’m able to deceive even a teacher! Ah!

8. @Aqu@ – It’s about time you joined the party! We move fast here because before you know it, the next issue is out! And yes, I am sticking to my earth merge theory mostly because I’m stubborn like that! And because it was already my head canon before I found it written somewhere, so that makes me love it more. And no, I did not take your tone in anyway mean. Like Evan, I would have never known your first language is not English (and I teach English at a local high school!). So A+ from me.

   @Evan – “Bottom of your sock”??? What the heck? Is that even a saying?

9. Ok, after rereading issues 50 to 53 in a row it isn’t THAT bad anymore. It’s clear it was meant to be read as part of a trade. It’s the breather in the middle of the story. Calm down the action and sets up the final showdown.

   It still feels like this story is dragging its feet. Which is what I don’t like as it feels like tighter storytelling could have made the story much more impactful. Hopefully the final 2 issues will change my mind!

10. @Aqu@ — I, for one, am hoping that this story takes place at the bottom of your sock! For what it’s worth, I find your writing understandable and your tone just fine, and I had no idea that English isn’t your first language. I’ve seen far harsher tones conveyed in written words. I appreciate, though, that you’re mindful of how your writing sounds in an open forum like this.) That’s disappointing that the .LR issues are in a separate TPB. I guess Marvel has its own reasons, but that doesn’t really make much sense to me.

11. Aw, c’mon, how long has it been since it came out, two days? I’m two days late and you all have already eviscerated everything one could say about this issue! 😉
    The fact that it feels too short, the art being sometimes a problem (it took me a couple of minutes to understand those were Liz and Normie at the beginning, and only because I knew the identity of Kindred)…
    Speaking of the art, I’m with Mark (and a lot of people, it seems): I love Bagley’s Spider-man, but he really draws the faces all the same.
    This is a problem I often find with today artists: they don’t know how to make characters recognizable, besides adding different hairstyles or details like moles (I’m looking at you, Pichelli!). That’s a big problem in a visual medium.
    People have so many different kind of face features, try to use them! And that’s coming from one who can’t draw a thing.

    Since we still don’t know exactly what kind of supernatural powers Kindred has and where the story is happening (reality, astral plane, dreamscape, the bottom of my sock), it may be that the literal unmasking of Kindred was just some kind of magic trick, like peeling one’s skin off. But I would be also ok with it being just a realistic mask, like the Green Goblin one.

    Still with that Alternate Earth merge crap, Mark? A page on a wiki created by fans doesn’t prove anything, especially if the only references used are issues of ASM where it isn’t mentioned of any merge whatsoever anywhere. References is everything in an online encyclopedia, otherwise it’s just opinions.
    From what I understand there’s no proof that it isn’t just some kind of interpretation of some thickheaded fan who couldn’t conceive the idea that the past of his favourite hero had been rewritten. Instead it’s really a lot simpler than merging realities: Mephisto changed the past. Period. At least until some writer will say otherwise! (Too rude? I’m still learning the tone in writing english, so please tell me if I sound impolite)

    As a side note: I’ve just learnt the .LR issues will not be collected with the main ones in the TPB, but in an accompanying TPB of their own. Sigh.

12. @Mark Allford – See, this is why I love the Crawlspace: comment threads don’t typically dissolve into a series of red herring “arguments” and ad hominum attacks on other posters who don’t hold your opinion. Nice site you’ve got here Brad (he said with a profound sense of understatement)

    Agreed on Flash’s utility as a supporting cast member drying up after he became Venom… sort of. Ever since Eddie got the symbiote back (yay!), I was just WAITING for certain stories that never happened. To my memory, Flash and Peter never talked about the former’s time as Venom.

    (Or if they did, it may have happened and I blinked and missed it amidst an event or crossover or whatever story Slott wanted to tell more so he refused to let those two have their moment because God fobid he let his characters breath holy crap this is a long run on sentence **huffhuff** sorry. Still working out issues with the Slott years I guess…)

    And what’s more, there were great story possibilities left unexplored too: Flash, kind of, got to live his dream – he got to sort of BE SPIDER-MAN for a time and now that had been taken from him. How’s he dealing with that, especially considering his history with substance abuse? It would have been nice for a writer, a la DeMatteis, Jenkins, and David, to sweep in and pick those threads up with Flash.

    (And Betty Brant, for that matter: the take Peter David had on her in FNSM was great. That was so refreshing to take her in a different direction than “Crazy Betty,” and it got prematurely cut short, but that’s a rant for another time – where’s David’s spin-off? [Symbiote Spider-Man doesn’t count] Not to trash Non-Stop SM before it comes out, but I want something more akin to the SPEC/ASM dynamic from the 70s and 80s, where the former gets more into Peter’s supporting cast, then what we’re seeing in those solicits. Rambling, sorry)

    So, yeah, I want Flash back. Make Betty better. And justify what’s being done to Harry. You’re the man, Mark.

13. I wouldn’t read into the mask too much. If Kindred is this all powerful demon, I’m sure he can conjure up the mask reveal just for the dramatic effect it would have on Peter.

    My main complaint is whether this is a comic book or a picture book. It really seems that they’re just stretching this story out to get more issues. It took like 3 minutes to get through it. I actually went back to count the pages because I reached the end so quickly. I guess when the lion share of the panels have nothing to read in them, and you have an inordinate amount of full splash pages, it makes for a quick read.

    And a note to Brad: When the story is this big is there any chance to crank out the review episodes a little quicker? I know you guys are busy but you’re anxious audience is pining for your take on it all.

14. @Big John and @Jack

    Big John – Your enthusiasm for the issue is contagious! And I love how this group in the comments are good with people all having different takes on it rather than trying to persuade people that they are wrong for liking or disliking a particular story. I’m glad you liked the art. My son did too.

    It will be interesting to see what Harry’s motive for visiting the house was. I have to think that Harry doesn’t see himself completely as the bad guy as much as having to do some bad things for the greater good, maybe? He’s a bit too focused on Peter acknowledging what he did wrong to see what Harry’s thought process is. I imagine that we will get more of this in the next few issues.

    I like Flash, but his use as a supporting cast member is a bit gone once he became Venom. We do need a supporting cast that has their own lives outside of superheroics. That is one thing I think we are missing. The ignoring of MJ was definitely for long time fans!

    Grant had the same idea as you that there were still fans who needed a solid reveal. And YES – Spencer has hyped the WHY over the WHO. He really needs to pay off on that. I think there are several ways to play this so that Harry’s sacrifice is not ignored. I agree that Harry believes he is strong and in control now, but he will see that he is still the weak man he always was. He has unbelievable powers, but still a weak man inside. He’ll have his moment in the sun, but a long term mastermind is not something I see him being.

    “It’s nice to be so engaged in Spider-Man again.” Yes it is.

    Jack – that would be pretty interesting to see what that merger with the 545 did. Maybe it will be revealed to other heroes who will see that some personal tragedy that they faced was an indirect result of Peter’s choice. That could really serve to set Spider-Man on the outs with the other heroes again, which I thought Spencer was leaning too early in the run, but sort of dropped.

15. What if…Peter’s deal ended up screwing all kinds of various things up, all over the Marvel universe?

16. Wow…I actually really loved this issue. Solid “A” from me, the only thing bringing it down from an “A+” being that it was a “repeat reveal,” which didn’t bother me as much since I was immersed in seeing this issue’s events unfold from Peter’s perspective.

    And while I see everyone’s issues with it, I was just basking in Bagley’s art, as well as his and Spencer’s storytelling, the whole time I was reading it:

    -I thought watching Kindred as he moved through his house, what with Spencer deciding to let Bagley’s pencils tell the story was awesome, because of the possibilities within the subtext. Is Harry up to something sinister or are we seeing the last gleamings of the good-but-weak man Harry is underneath all of this demonic vitriole, as he’s trying desperately to anchor himself to these people he loves/his own humanity?

    -I welled-up when Peter saw Flash again too. His death was a waste of great potential, and with Harry “breaking bad” again, really MJ is the last member of the Coffee Bean gang left. #bringbackFlashThompson Hopefully this all results, in part at least, with Harry giving his life for Flash to return as I thought the years when that was the status quo resulted in much stronger character work across the Spider-Man mythos, relative to now.

    -I LOVED when Harry was trying to introduce Carly and Peter was all, “Don’t care… MJ!!”

    -The evil that undergirds the story just had me on the edge of my seat too. The gleam in the doorman’s eye (“You’ll miss the ‘surprise.’ That’s the best part.”), Carly’s sinister expression, the twisted look on Harry’s face (which, again, I see your all’s complaints, I just clearly recognized him) when he said “Gotcha” (great JMD callback)

    – Even the “reveal” was effective to me because, in a way, it’s kind of meta: Peter is kind of in the position of the fans who just don’t want to believe that this evil influence that’s been pulling these strings in his life could possibly be his best friend (other than MJ of course). Maybe that’s reaching, but it worked for me.

    So, I guess I was reading a different issue LOL (or even “reading-into” the issue because, admittedly, I WANT to like this run after 10 years of you-know, but that being said, I don’t think my fanboy blinders keep me from recognizing a bad story as such), but there it is. I think we all admit that the issue was at least “fine,” even if I’m in the minority who think that it’s great.

    To me, everything now hinges on Spencer’s answer to the question of WHY Harry has become this. It worries me because a) to go from where Harry ended up at the end of “Best of Enemies” to THIS just edges a little to close to character regression, which can be done in a relatable way, but is more often then not just irritatingly executed in order to force a plot point **coughBND/SlotcoughCOUGH**. And b) Harry Osborn is just NOT a bad man. Now, he CAN be a weak man (can’t we all), but he’s just as much a victim of Norman Osborn as Peter, if not more so. I don’t want to see him turn into an evil mastermind because that just wouldn’t be believable, again, IMO.

    **huffhuff** That said, thanks for another thoughtful review, Mark. It’s nice to be so engaged in Spider-Man again.

    Viva Crawlspace!!

17. I love all these theories. Any one of them are possible. I don’t think OMD is going to be Harry all along, mainly because it seems that when Spencer fixes something out of character, he makes Peter deal with it, not provide him an out. Even if the marriage was never erased, Peter still made a deal with who he believed was the devil. He and MJ both agreed to it. The fact that it was really Mephisto or Harry is inconsequential to Peter’s action. At least, that’s how I think Spencer will see it. Whatever the case, that’s some pretty good speculating, jbeltramirez.

    Of course, that said, he could still use Harry as the architect and still make Peter and MJ come to terms with what they were prepared to do and what they did. So we could all be right on that one.

    One of the refreshing things, for me that is, what I’m seeing here is I was not alone in my confusion of the final panel looking like Norman. 🙂

    Erik, what could be an artist inconsistency can become a plot point for Spencer down the road. Let’s keep an eye out for … those eyes.

    Evan, I know that Spencer doesn’t put too much stock in onomatopoeias, but that RUNCH last issue suggests that Kindred’s body is less than fresh. So even with the wrapping being a mask, I don’t think everything is kosher there. Here’s hoping he pulls one of those Batman things where he then takes off his Harry face mask to reveal his true decomposed face.

    Michael, I do think Mephisto and Harry were working together, but I think if that is the case, we’ll find that Mephisto was just using Harry. However, recent events in Avengers puts a whole different spin on what role Mephisto is going to play in this arc.

18. My own theory is a bit different- it was Mephisto but Harry suggested it to Mephisto. I think also that Harry was behind the Kingpin shooting May in the first place- the Kingpin came to Harry begging him to raise Vanessa from the dead and Harry refused but suggested the Kingpin try to kill May to get revenge on Peter, or something along those lines.

19. I like the theory that there was no Mephisto deal. It was all “Harry”. That really works for me. Mysterio was there as an agent of Kindred just before One More Day, so him being there to lay the ground work could fit. Plus Mephisto seems to be “off the table” over in Avengers.

    I was a little disappointed in the issue. I didn’t feel like it gave us anything new. Though I did like seeing the party from 545 again. With a twist.

    I don’t hate Carlie as much as some. But I think this shows perfectly why she failed to establish a strong fan base. She has no definition. Who is that with Harry? Long brown hair and a tie. Look at Carlie from 555, 565, 575 she has completely different looks from artist to artist. I remember wanting to give Carlie and Lilly a chance, and quickly realised Lilly was a villain and Carlie was a miss fire.

20. @jbeltramirez- There’s a very likely chance of that happening, it could be true that the events of OMIT happened…but it wasn’t Peter and MJ wiping the world of Peter’s secret ID, it was Harry and he simply gave Peter and MJ false memories. Harry would have wiped the identity AND the marriage…and if the world were to regain knowledge of the marriage, they would also learn Peter’s identity again. Peter owes his privacy to Harry, he owes Harry a debt, and now Harry may want to collect on that

    ..and before anyone points out the Spider-Man/Deadpool appearance by Mephisto taunting Peter over what he lost, that particular arc involved Mysterio also.

21. @ Patrick Mocella — Excellent point! I had forgotten about that. I suppose something similar might happen here, with Mary Jane being those one selected to “get through” to Harry. I say just let Norman try it. He can get at last get a sense of what he had such a huge hand in creating (literally and figuratively).

22. What if and just what if Harry was behind everything in OMD and there was no Mephisto at all.

23. @Evan Berry

    I mean that was basically Peter’s mindset in Spectacular Spider-Man 189 and 200. At that point he had pretty much given up on Harry and accepted that he was now a villain. If it wasn’t for MJ, Harry would have left Peter to die in Spec 200.

24. @Everyone — I was just thinking about Harry and Peter’s relationship over the years, and I understand that Peter wants to help Harry and he has to refrain from hurting him too badly because they’re friends, and that tension makes their confrontations difficult and suspenseful, but doesn’t the balance seem to fall in Harry’s just not being a good friend to Peter? At what point do you say, “You know, Harry, I’ve tried to be patient with you and help you, but you’re just really terrible. Please come find me after you get some help. Until then, if you mess with me or my loved ones, I’ll have to protect them. Now go away.” That seems to me the most compassionate response now that this has gone on so long. The man just dug up some corpses.

25. @Mark

    I’m not trying to get too deep into speculation but I’ve also noticed now that back in ASM 545, the original version of the party, Harry’s eyes are green as well. Prior to that, as far as I know, he was always drawn with blue eyes.

    It could be a clue that there is something different about the Harry who reappeared miraculously at the start of BND, and perhaps that he was Kindred the whole time. Not sure how Spencer would explain why he only started messing with Peter now though.

    It also could just be artist inconsistency, but the fact that they deliberately changed Norman’s eye color in ASM 50 has me thinking there may be more to this. Spencer seems like the kind of writer who’s very deliberate about details like that.

26. nothing new to add really, just expressing my frustration with this issue as well. Kindred’s identity should have been revealed to us readers in this issue, not through Norman in 851

27. @Mark — I just want to say what has been echoed here in the comments. When I saw that “reveal” panel, I thought it was Norman. I suppose I’m not a savvy enough to have caught the “Gotcha” reference. I will say, though, that I love when scenes or events that have already occurred are revisited from a different perspective or with different outcomes. It irks me that the dialogue in those revisited scenes was different, both in tone (as indicated by emboldened words) and in content, with whole sentences missing. I wonder how such care can be taken to duplicate the artwork only to have the dialogue imprecise. And all that is just the nitpicky stuff.

    In answering Michael below you said exactly what I was thinking: I wonder how the Kindred scenes that have occurred thus far before the reveal would play out when revisited with the knowledge of his identity.

    I, too, was expecting a more spectral and decomposed Harry under the wrapping. I guess the contrast between this issue and the previous is reflected in its onomatopoeia — Last issue was overwhelmingly loud and exciting, and this one ended with a wimpy “ding.” But, again, I’m super excited for this story to continue. I’m not so much interested in “sticking the landing,” as to Spencer’s weaving a strong and vivid tapestry — or, I guess, a web — with the various threads that are dangling right now. Maybe the preview will provide the dialogue that would have made the ending of this issue better. By the way, I might be mistaken, but last issue I thought there was another corpse at Harry’s table that hasn’t yet been identified. Was that an oversight (potentially on my part)? I don’t think it’s some sort of conspiracy, I was just trying to figure out who else’s death Harry my blame Peter for. Okay, enough of that. Back to Tess of the D’Urbervilles for me. Just kidding.

28. @Jack @David Blyth

    Jack – 1. Yes. Yes. Yes. 2. You and me both! 3. If this doesn’t address the deal made with Mephisto after all the teases to it, then I think hard core Spidey fans will be irate and might leave the book. I don’t think the majority of fans *need* a complete resolution, but the whole idea of just doing it and then trying to ignore how out of character it was left fans cold.

    David – That’s a good point about treating this as the middle part of a longer saga. This mess wasn’t made in a day and it’s going to take a while to sort it out. However, we do need some serious addressing of it to satisfy the majority of us. Spencer has danced too close around it. We need to know what happens when Peter and MJ get hit with the realization of what they’ve done. Hopefully, it will be one of those things that make them stronger rather then being a angsty Arrow-verse sort of ending. Carlie’s timing might be indicative of something else going on. She is there either because she was there to begin with, to emphasize that Peter really does love MJ and the last fling with Carlie was purely a result of the deal, or because she is a part of this whole Kindred thing. I didn’t think she was before, but I’m leaning now to her playing a part in it.

29. It appears to be consensus that this issue really has us worried about Last Remains’ ability to stick the landing in it’s final acts…but I believe we’re looking at this the wrong way. I don’t think the landing will be stuck for quite a while after. Not because of the pacing issues or whatever, but this is not designed to have an ending by any means, this is the “Empire Strikes Back” portion of a very long game being played out, and we have to treat it as such.

    Bagley’s art is definitely off-key, hence the confusion over whether Kindred is Harry or Norman, but it’s definitely Harry, Norman doesn’t say ‘gotcha’, a catchphrase well associated with Harry at the peak of his odyssey in the 1990s, and Spencer is a big DeMatties fan.

    I loved the OMD party scene being revisited, only this time Peter is self-aware and fixated on how unreal and uncertain everything now feels, and, most importantly, is fixated on Mary Jane when he spots her at the party, ignoring Carlie. I feel Carlie arriving with Harry at the party in the context of what Peter’s experiencing is most interesting..is Spencer trying to tell us something about Carlie too? Or am I looking for further riddles?

    I can’t in good conscience give this one a C or an F with all the OMD course correcting going on, I’ll give this a B-, art was great, callbacks were great, I’m a big fan of diabolical Harry so that was great…this might read a lot better by next week or the following week, Spencer writes for the trade so this is to be expected.

    Lastly…now that the dust is settling, we can now credit both of the most divisive and derided eras of Spider-Man (Clone Saga and OMD Saga) as being masterminded by the Osborns, whenever there’s another migrane-inducing saga, just have Kingsley behind it. Whyever not?

30. 1. That looks like Norman. Harry should have a thinner, more neurotic look.

    2. Is Peter back in the real world now? Was he killed in the real world? I’m confused.

    3. Won’t it be fantastic if all of this culminates in an explosive resolution to the wretchedness of One More Day? Even if Peter and MJ decide to be a “committed couple”, rather than marry again? There is a point at which they would be functionally married (I know, there’s no such thing, but I’m trying to put myself in the shoes of C.B. Cebulski, who might want to wipe out OMD and still have Peter and MJ be a couple without formal, legal marriage being in the equation).

31. @Michael @Sthenurus @Brad

    Michael – While I’m holding to my convoluted idea that there is two Harrys, I like the idea you threw out there – if Harry Lyman and Kindred are one and the same, then his losing Normie if people found out would be an interesting trick. If they are one and the same, then we need to look back at all that Harry was doing before and try to match that up with who Kindred is. That will be some interesting analysis.

    @Sthenurus – Wow! An F! I hate that you hated it that much. I sure hope the next few issues restores your faith in the story!

    @Brad – Don’t remind me how much money I’m shelling out for this! Yeesh! I was a quick read now that you mention it. You know, it is not often we are in agreement on issues. I hate and issue and listen to the podcast and you are all hip on it or I’ll love an issue and it just left you ‘meh’. Chance alignment or are we starting to think alike? Things to ponder….

32. @Comet @Sam

    Comet – Wow – I completely forgot about Harry saying Gotcha at the end of 389. Good catch! OK, the Gotcha comment makes more sense now, since both were Harry revealing that it was he all along. I didn’t pay much attention to Normie and Peter being drawn the same, but I don’t doubt it. The confusing art did not help this issue. I would really like to see what I would have thought about this if it were a different artist like Gleason. The most awesome thing about this is you and I both were disappointed with the issue, but still loving the arc and excited for what Spencer has in store. If he pulls it out and sticks the landing, no one will care that this one issue fell a bit flat.

    Sam – I’m going to always be as honest as I can be. You’re talking to guy who enjoyed the satellite jump issue! I think I was the only one, but man, I just found it fun. Literature is like art – sure there are finer points that one can argue, but when it comes down to it, we like what we like and we don’t what we don’t. I love Spider-Man and I want to love all of these stories, but not all of them are going to be home runs. I do agree that Nick Lowe needs to step up and take a more active role. We don’t want the editor to stifle the writer, but we do expect the editor to give guidance on what makes sense, give guidance on the pacing, etc. Props to Lowe for stepping out of the way and letting Spencer address what we all think he is about to address, but .. well, I can’t criticize too much because I don’t know all the work that he may be doing that we can’t see. As I said with Comet, the fact that this issue was a miss for us, but we are still excited for the next one is a major tribute to Spencer’s writing so far!

33. @Chi-Town @Erik @Grant

    Chi-Town – Yes, this would have made an amazing reveal issue! I wonder if it was Spencer’s initial intention to make this the reveal issue. I didn’t mind the revisit to 545, especially since it is giving us a little more meat to consider when we try to determine what Harry is after and how this came to be. I’m ignoring your last inane comment.

    Erik – The green eyes were another thing that made me think that maybe it was Norman there at the end. It kind of looked like Harry was turning into Norman in the dream and then there is the Gotcha reveal looking like Norman. I saw in the Crawlspace Discord that someone (I apologize to whomever it was for not remembering who said it) noticed that Bagley draws Norman with more age lines. I don’t know. Green eyes are often used for jealousy, but the Green Goblin connection is more likely. What do you think it may be? You think Harry is going to reclaim being the Goblin or is he far past that now?

    Grant- Fair point. There were still plenty of fans out there who were still looking for the trick, so I guess this was a big reveal for them. It will be interesting to see how Reddit responds. I’ll expect you to do that dirty work and let me know! You mentioned Bendis and this does feel much more like Bendis pacing. I was expecting things to be moving by this point, but now that Peter knows, maybe we can get on with it.

34. I agree with your grade. The image at the end fell flat especially when I can’t tell if that is Harry or Norman. Also this was one of the quickest reads of ASM I’ve ever had. Talk about a quick $4.

35. It was an F to me. I felt like I wasted 5$. Took 4 mn to “read” and if you remove this issue entirely from the arc you are missing nothing.

    Really disappointed. At this point we need more than filler. Slotts writing was bad but at least things happened in each issue…

    @sam now that you mention it you are right. That’s an aweful lot of time and issue and the endgame is nowhere in sigh. At least the clone saga had a lot more development in the meantime

36. I think Kindred is indeed Harry Lyman. The point was that Harry has been subtly trying to keep Peter and MJ apart since he returned from the dead.
    And that’s why he murdered Mysterio’s psychiatrist. Mysterio told the psychiatrist Harry’s name. Harry realized that even if the psychiatrist didn’t believe that Harry had magical powers, if the psychiatrist googled Harry’s name. ,he would have found several disturbing facts about Harry and might have requested an investigation into whether Harry was terrorizing Mysterio. And then Harry might lose Normie.

37. Thanks for reviewing this so honestly. I felt the same, and was worried that I’d overreacted when I put the book down. All that last page needed was Peter to said “Harry …?” It doesn’t make sense to leave it ambiguous at this stage, and really, Nick Lowe should be the one to take blame here.

    I’m also not a big fan of knowing the twist before the main character, so if this IS still Harry, the reveal should’ve come at the beginning of the book. Otherwise we’re only following along, waiting for Peter to catch up. The “why” of Kindred’s motives might’ve been addressed here, and then the book would’ve had momentum – and a legitimate ending.

    It feels (at times – not always) that there isn’t much communication going on in the Marvel offices. I like Spencer – I really do. I quit reading spidey during BND and didn’t touch another book until Spencer’s run. The best thing I can say is that he really reminded me how much I love this character. But having said that, I feel like this is a clumsily-told mystery, and I don’t think the Covid delays are entirely to blame. It just feels overly stuffed, with too many characters (Morlun is now in this? Seriously?), and some issues just meander along through flashbacks and different POVs like Spencer is treading water. I’m actually surprised no one has drawn clone saga comparisons yet, as we approach the end of year 2 of this storyline.

    I feel better now I’ve ranted lol. Great review, and you know what? I’m still looking forward to the next issue. Spencer has got me there.

38. Weird that there are two reveals for Kindred: 1) For the reader in #50 and 2) #53 for Peter. I do like the “gotcha” reference to #389.

    I don’t mind Mary Jane’s face, but I did have a problem with Normie. Normie and Peter are both sleeping and their faces are drawn similar.

    Also, this felt like padding for the story arc. I liked the previous issues of this arc and I’m still interested in seeing how this ends.

39. When I was reading the issue, I was reading it as Spencer telling the Spider-Man fans that don’t believe it’s Harry that it is in fact Harry. It kept feeling like Spencer trying to get it through the heads of some of the people on Reddit who refuse to believe its Harry.

    Normally I agree with you on the Bagley art, but I really liked the art in this issue. I thought the beginning scenes were drawn really well.

    I’m not sure how I feel about the wrapping being a mask. I’m leaning toward not liking it. It brings up all these questions about why he was using the costume in the first place and why that particular costume. Maybe these questions will be answered but I have a feeling they will not be.

    Overall, I thought it was fine. Nothing really happened here except for the reveal and we all knew the surprise. this would have been a much better reveal had it been the first time we got confirmation this was Harry. Maybe I liked it a bit more because I’m used to Miles Morales comics with Bendis and so I’m accustomed to nothing happening, who knows. I think I’d give it a B or a B-. Nothing too bad with it in my opinion and I think the art was enough to pull it up from a C

40. Something interesting I noticed that could be nothing or could be something:

    Harry’s eyes are strikingly green at the party and when he takes off the Kindred mask. When we got the Norman reveal in 50, the image of Harry that’s shown has blue eyes, and he’s shown again in 50LR, again with blue eyes.

    That got me thinking and I went back and noticed that Norman’s eyes are green in this story until he’s “cleansed” by sin eater, after which they immediately turn blue in the same issue.

    Again, could be nothing but a stylistic flourish, but it’s clear that it was done intentionally.

41. C+ for me too. Nicely done Mark! I was expecting much more out of this issue, but basically got an “Yep, I’m Harry incase there was still any doubt.”

    THIS should have been the reveal issue, not what was in ASM 50. I think it would have been more impactful. I didn’t appreciate the fact that this issue made me read some panels of OMD just to get the compare and contrast content.

    Also, seeing Aunt May call Peter “Tiger” makes me cringe and full of frustration. You know, like when you see a published letter of mine.