Marvel says NO to Spider-Marriage at C2E2.

40 Comments

1. After vindicating once again the argument as to why on a debate between your truly and the great Thomas Mets (another spider-columnist), I can for sure attest that your entire post here serves as one of the most important manifestoes for the love life and the very heart of Peter Parker.

   Thanks for this one, Chi-Town.

2. I am INCREDIBLY late to this but I just want to say thank you for standing up for Peter in this way. I came across this article while looking up news to see if Mary Jane and Peter come closer together in recent issues. I can’t put my finger on it but the absolute refusal to let these 2 get back together absolutely infuriates me. I don’t understand it. Is it because marriage and family is continuously being downplayed and seen as unimportant in our society? Is it because they want to pander to the single, apathetic part of their fanbase? It just borderline infuriates me. For me on a weird personal level, Spiderman as a person is very relateable. I almost always find myself empathizing with the character. And I myself have a very stable and happy relationship. So when I read how they are continously refusing to let this character have any actual growth, and build up his life, it’s almost like seeing my favorite character live out my worst nightmare of losing everything and never getting it back. It’s infuriating. I want to read a story that is canon about Peter and M.J. together and going strong, and it not be temporary. I will never understand what is so “unrelateable” about trying to grow as a human being and have a truly beautiful love in your life. I really hope the more we boycott their Spiderman comics, the more chance we have of this changing.

3. I think it’s wrong to not have Peter and Mary Jane together. Especially after all they have been through together. They are not even acting like friends. All because of this Paul character. He is the monkey wrench in all this. Also, Spider-Man teaming with Norman Osborn, bad idea. Why not just call Peter, “the Spider-Goblin”.

4. I think it’s wrong to not have Peter and Mary Jane together. Especially after all they have been through together. They are not even acting like friends. All because of this Paul character. He is the monkey wrench in all this. Also, Spider-Man teaming with Norman Osborn, bad idea. Why not just call Peter, “the Spider-Goblin”.

5. @hornacek- exactly so I don’t know why they are still scared about doing it. Clearly it can be done and people liked it, even older fans liked it(save for a few) and in a dying industry like print sitting on something that would guarantee more interest in your books and most likely more sales is just silly. Giving it till Dark Web if they aren’t at least dating by the end I’m done again

   @Chi-Town- I too would like to help prove them wrong

6. @Robin MB

   “I think the truth is they don’t know how to write a married Spider-Man”

   It’s funny because they did it for over 20 years.

7. I think I finally found the words to describe my thoughts on this and why Marvel wants to die on this hill. They say they want Spider-Man to be relatable but I think the truth is they don’t know how to write a married Spider-Man and it’s easier just to write the same stories over and over then actually try to put in effort to tell something new. As mean as it may sound maybe they can’t be bothered to try?

8. The idea that Spidey is all about “youth” is such a crock. They always reference the Lee/Dikto era to backup that argument, and yes Peter was in highschool, but he aged in real time. In 3 years of comics the characters aged 3 years – he was out of high school and into college. Stan never intended to have Peter’s status quo to forever remain “a teenager in high school”.

   Yes, once he got to university Stan slowed things down a bit and he was in university forever. But I contend that by that point he was literally an adult and just not forced to act like one (like I described in my previous post). He had moved out of his home, had bought a motorcycle, was dating, etc – this is not the “youthful” Spider-Man that Marvel tries to tell us is the “default” version of the character.

9. @hornacek
   You’re right. I agree that Peter was never youthful in that he had the responsibilities of a grown man at the age of 15 and was always worrying about his elderly Aunt May which is not something normal teenagers his age experienced. Yet he was relatable through his every day struggles with his job and personal life. I think Marvel knows this and they are just full of it.

   Marvel editorial is just writing the character to their own preferences or using the “must remain youthful” excuse because they just don’t want to say they don’t like him with Mary Jane.

   Even giving him different girlfriends like Carlie Cooper and Mockingbird ends up being so incredibly boring and a distraction for the other shoe to drop as they’ve already played that song and dance during the 80s when he dated Felicia for a while and it just didn’t work out because of who he is as a character and how he was originally written by Lee and Ditko in the late 60s.

   @Mario
   I’m right there with you. I dropped the comic after One More Day, picked it back up with the Spencer run, and dropped it again once Zeb Wells took over and I probably won’t be spending any more money on the comics moving forward since Marvel made it 100% clear they do not want Peter with MJ and therefore do not want my business.

   All I could really do is spend my money on other adjacent Spider-Man mediums like film and games if they are written well enough and don’t have the titular character stuck in the same situations where he is a kid in high school for 6 years straight (MCU) but they’re hard to come by.

   The only things I’m looking forward to at this point is the sequel to the PS4 game and the sequel to Into the Spider-Verse since Peter will be in his late 30s to early 40s, presumably back with MJ, and with child since that was how his arc concluded in the last film but we’ll see.

10. It’s so hilarious they say Peter being married doesn’t make him relatable. A guy who got super powers from a spider bite and is constantly involved in crazy plots.

    It’s obvious the current regime at Marvel want Peter stuck in the Stan Lee-era. With the result that you just get inferior, dumber and more over-the-top versions of the stories Stan Lee wrote.

11. *I hope my meaning wasn’t lost in my typos. I guess I was getting passionate, too!

12. @Chi-Town — I really appreciate your passion and your willingness to sincerely speak your mind. I wish I could have been there. I would have clapped (and stood up), too. I’m really confused why being married makes someone unrelatable. It sounds to me like, when they say they want Spider-man to be “relatable.” it’s just some kind of buzz word that they’re using to substitute for what they really want Spider-man to be. I’m not sure what that is. I thought maybe it was “kid-friendly,” but that’s at odds with the content of the stories lately. As you said, Peter doesn’t lose his sense of responsibility or the values that make him a hero because he’s in a committed and sanctioned relationship. If anything, it strengthens those values and underscores what makes him human. I’m, frankly, amazed how Nick Spencer’s clear understanding and appreciation of this could be viewed so negatively on the part of Marvel.

    Either Marvel thinks being married makes someone unrelated, or, as dumb as it sounds, they’re saying they want only unmarried readers, for some reason. Either way, the implication is that once a person gets married, they’ve “outgrown” Spider-man — and if that’s a case, it’s tantamount to saying there’s nothing sufficiently deep or meaningful about Spider-man to warrant him as an inspiring or even entertaining character, and I can think of nothing worse than that for any character, much less a beloved and “flagship” one.

    I could say a great deal more, but I’ll post this now so as not to overdo it. But thank you again for what you’ve done and continue to do — and thank you to everyone on the Crawlspace, reviewer and reader alike, who shares love for Spider-man!

13. I think I’m done if Dark Web doesn’t fix anything. Which it probably won’t. I’m just so tired

14. Many people tell me to let it go, it’s been 15 years now “move on” but I can’t let it go. every issue of spiderman that I have collected kind of means nothing anymore, or like I wasted my money and time and energy and been bamboozled. I spend the little money I had as a kid, blowing my allowances, then my little crummy paychecks on so many great stories and MJ moments that didn’t happen and were erased. they still mean a lot but dam I feel cheated…Do you know what is like reading stories of peter and MJ’s love hoping to find my own MJ one day, I finally do and the year that I get married is the year they ended the marriage, you know how sucks that is. I think back at aunt may’s passing in asm 400 and it was a beautiful send-off. they undo that, they undo the pregnancy so much great things I was hoping for all erased. This book has hurt me and angered me so much, yeah it’s just a book, and that’s why I left the character all together for a while until the movies and the game was so fantastic and keeps reeling me in but I don’t pay for books anymore I find methods to catch up and read. Peter makes a deal with Mephisto I can’t let it go. it is so not peter. I saw peter turn down many things and either found another way or accepted fate. to see him do that and end his marriage, and not accept the death of aunt may that passed beautifully already but returned was so so stupid. it makes story arcs feel, dumb, it makes you now see things differently until they undo it. I’m sorry but I can not and will not let it go. to put so much hope into something and be constantly psyched out and now told it will never happen… is so sad.

15. @Kelli – “Being youthful doesn’t make him relatable.”

    I would say that Spider-Man was never *youthful*. He is introduced as a teenager living with “parent” in their ~70s, while the parents of everyone else Peter’s age that we see are more age appropriate (i.e. Liz and Harry’s fathers are in their 40s). Even before the spider-bite Peter does not feel like a teenager – he feels like an old man in a teenager’s body.

    And once Ben is dead, Peter takes on 2 new jobs – superhero and photographer. At 15 he is suddenly the sole breadwinner for his family, something most teens his age do not have to deal with (although Betty had to work for Jameson to take care of her mother). So this version of Peter does not come off as “youthful” having to deal with bills, the mortgage, etc.

    I guess Peter is kind of youthful in the period when he’s using his powers for fame and fortune. He’s relishing in becoming famous and earning lots of money. And once he gets to university he moves out from May, moves in with Harry, gets a motorcycle, and starts hanging out with the gang more than he did in the Ditko run. So that could be considered “youthful”, except that he’s 19-20 by this time and I would consider him more of an adult by this point.

16. Honestly, the disconnect between Spider-Man and Peter Parker seems to be growing. We’re far beyond the point of a “guy that cannot catch a break” and have reached “punching bag” status, where literally every decision will backfire in his personal life. I’m tracking the new series and the desire to isolate both Spider-Man and Peter Parker, but it would be nice to see some growth with the character. Unfortunately, I don’t think Marvel views Spider-Man as their flagship character, at least not to the extent that they have marketed Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther, and the Avengers in recent memory.

    In terms of relatability, one of the issues that I connected with the most was during the Death of Robin storyline in the Bat-titles. As a father of two kiddos, the issue that showed Alfred grieving the loss of Damien and blaming himself for his passing connected with me. Batman has grown as a father and his determination to bring his son back resonated as well. Even Ace’s sadness jumped off the page. Batman becoming a father allowed for stories that would not have been considered 30-40 years ago. Marvel now has multiple Spider people that can fill the role of young Peter Parker, it’s time to let Peter grow up and form his family in the 616 universe.

17. @PeterParkerfan
    “So nowadays the idea of getting married and having your own family is considered “not normal”? “
    No, it’s just that it’s a lot more common for couples to not marry and have children anyway. Nowadays it’s not considered weird, while in the ’60s it would have been (to say the least).

18. Selling comics is a business. If married Spider-Man sold more comics they would do it. But is seems there is no difference in sale numbers whether he’s single or not. So, as long as most writers prefer to write a single Spider-Man, they’ll keep doing it. They need to keep the property approachable to writers so they can keep talent coming in to write and sell more comics. And if writing single Spider-Man is easier, they’ll keep him single. I voted with my wallet years ago. What baffles me is the teasing. Why even keep MJ in the books of there’s no intention of bringing them together? That’s what I find insulting!

19. Peter wants to make every girl he’s dating his wife. He’s always been like this and it’s the type of characteristic that transcends time.

    He tried to “fix” Felicia and make her wife material and failed at it which is funny because Marvel keeps trying to put them together when they’re both so toxic for each other.

    Being youthful doesn’t make him relatable. It’s being the every man that yearns for some kind of stability that makes him appealing to anyone at any age and walk of life.

20. @PeterParkerFan – If you told me that throughout its history, everyone at Marvel was single and actively against the idea of marriage, this might make some sort of sense.

21. So nowadays the idea of getting married and having your own family is considered “not normal”? Seriously??

    You’ve gotta be kidding me.

22. The splash page of ASM #11 has Betty beating Spidey’s chest saying she hates him, and Stan’s narration saying that Betty is “the woman Peter loves”. And in that issue he’s so happy with Betty and in love with her that he decides to tell her that he’s Spider-Man once they get back to New York (but then her brother Bennett dies and she blames it on Spidey).

    Regarding Gwen, he may have once thought about telling Gwen his identity, but from your description it sounds like he quickly talked himself out of it. But with Betty the panel clearly shows that Peter had made up his mind to tell her because of how happy they were together, and would have done it if Bennett hadn’t died.

    Once Peter decides that he wants to marry Gwen (can’t remember if that starts before or after #82) he thinks *a lot* about how he’ll have to handle marriage to Gwen and keeping his identity as Spidey a secret from her.

    Regarding ASM #30, by that point Peter and Betty’s relationship was pretty much over. She had decided that she would marry Ned unless Peter “made a big move” and was constantly waving Ned’s proposal in front of him, trying to get him to “do something”. Peter frantically deciding to propose to her and reveal his identity to her then reeks of desperation at the thought of losing Betty forever. It really doesn’t feel like it was Peter’s own idea, whereas Peter constantly thinking of proposing to Gwen is entirely his own idea and not prompted by the sudden thought of losing her to someone else.

23. Aaand after a frantic search during the night, I found it: ASM 30, page 9.
    When Betty reveals Ned asked her to marry him, an upset Peter thinks he has to reveal his identity and propose himself.
    Of course when he mentions Spidey, Betty makes clear she couldn’t accept a man like him, so his plans quickly go west.
    It’s a hasty thought arising from the fear of losing her, but there it is: Peter thought of proposing even to Betty.

    [Playing the devil’s advocate]
    If on one hand this can be used as proof that Peter has always been the “familiy man” kind of character, on the other it’s also a byproduct of the time, when it was considered the “normal” thing to do.
    This latter aspect is not different from how sexist some characters like Reed Richards were in the ’60s, a side of the character nobody would want today and that led said character to adapt to the shifting times. And given the importance of Spider-man as the flagship of Marvel Comics, it’s only natural they want to keep him in line with the times. But times have changed, unfortunately for us.
    Another example would be Ben Grimm smoking cigars.

    Am I happy of this or is it a good thing? Definitely not.
    Is it what’s happening? Probably yes.

24. I’m pretty sure he thought of marrying Betty at some point, but I couldn’t find the issue. Probably one of that times you mention when he thought he loved her.
    I’m reading that stories now, I’m currently before Capt. Stacy’s death and I can confirm: he did think at least once of telling Gwen his secret identity, to the point he wanted to speak but couldn’t force himself to do it. With a quick search is ASM 82, page 12.

25. @Aqua – Peter said (or at least thought) that he loved Betty all the time. He was even planning on telling her he was Spider-Man, but then Doc Ock killed her brother and she blamed it on Spider-Man. I don’t remember him thinking about proposing to Betty – I thought the first time we saw him thinking about proposing to anyone was to Gwen.

    But even with all those proposal thoughts, I’m pretty sure we never saw Peter think about telling Gwen that he was Spidey, especially after her father’s death. And every time he thought about them being married he was thinking “And it’ll be difficult still being Spider-Man and keeping that secret from her.” Man, young Peter was dumb some times.

26. @hornacek
    If I recall correctly, he even thought of proposing to Betty Brant, back in the day!

27. @Aqu: Technically, yes “ “their version of Spider-man” IS the real one” but it’s not the correct one. Not the right one and if you agree with me, then you know that. I REALLY hope we see that complaint letter in the letter section, that would be truly beneficial.

    PeterParkerfan: ASM #861: You nailed the board right on the head. It’s Spencer writing that really spoke to us.

28. Even back in Stan’s day, once Peter started seriously dating Gwen, he constantly thought about proposing to her. Would Stan have had them get married if he hadn’t left the book? Probably not – he would have kept coming up with reasons to push off the wedding/proposal indefinitely, but the idea that Peter would not be relatable if he was married makes no sense because Spidey continued to be incredibly popular even with all the proposal talk.

    Also, Peter’s first love is Gwen??? Justice for Betty Brant!

29. Before reading Sthenurus comment I was going for this:

    Just speculating here, i.e. I do not know the statistics, but when they tell us a married Spider-man is not relatable, I think they mean that he would not represent the common guy, in respect to the current society, where marriage is losing its status as a value and there are more and more couples not married, with or without kids.
    What they are not considering, however, is that probably most of Spider-man’s fans (that is the ones that keep the title floating, and they know it) are married, if anything because of their age (old enough to be married and having grown up in a cultural context where marriage still had value).

    After reading Sthenurus comment:
    Seeing the percentage from the US census, the numbers are not in favor to the unmarried as much as I thought, but the trend is still what I speculated: married couples are decreasing.
    So my point is still valid: when they say “relatable”, they probably mean that Peter Parker must be as much as the average American guy as possible. Which I think is a big mistake on their part, because it doesn’t take in consideration the deviation of their core readers (again, the only thing that keeps Marvel Comics going) from the average.

    @Chi-Town
    Yes you can. You just choose not to because of some “Editorial Mandate” that dishonor’s the character because they want “their version” of Spider-Man to be published, not the REAL one.
    No, he can’t. Because the man is just a gear in the big machine reporting the situation. If anything, this could mean the decision is not his, but comes from higher-up. That, if you want to give weight to what is probably just a set phrase.
    Also, and I say this even if I basically agree with you, “their version of Spider-man” IS the real one. Because they created it, they publish it and have the rights to it. The version in your head is just a fan version. Saying otherwise is just fan ranting.

    I’m with many here in that I’m not surprised, even if a bit let down. So much so, that I sent them a complain letter after reading ASM 1, as I already stated in my recent comment to the review.
    Letter I doubt they’ll publish, since it’s too negative, but I hope to be proven wrong.

30. “Look at me. No marriage. No kids. Struggling to make the ends meet”.

    Spencer knew what he was doing when he wrote Peter’s dialogue in Amazing Spider-Man v5 #60/861

    He’s just as upset with the current state of 616 Spider-Man as we are. No wonder he left after his last story got butchered by the editorial.

31. Marvel needs to move past this absurd mindset of keeping Peter “relatable” by not letting him put an end to that terrible deal with the devil.

    And who’s to say that a married Peter can’t be relatable?

32. Out of all the Marvel characters, Peter Parker is hard-wired from his first issue to seek out a soulmate, get married, and have kids. His own family was destroyed, and he became an orphan. He was loved and brought up by a committed couple, Ben and May. He has always been a monogamous boyfriend. Marvel had 20 years of a successful and profitable series about a married Spider-Man, which makes everything said later by Quesada, Brevoort, and their cronies total bollocks. There are some characters for whom marriage seems unlikely, like Black Cat or Bruce Wayne. Peter is not one of those characters. If they ever do want to have Peter take the second chair, who better to replace him than his own own son, or daughter, or both? No one considers MCU Tony Stark “unrelatable” for marrying Pepper Potts, and everyone “related” in sympathy when Steve Rogers ended up with Peggy Carter. And I would be very happy to see some “Untold Tales of Captain America & Agent Carter”. I’ve been listening to Marvel editors and writers pump out rubbish for fifteen years aboutr relatability, and it’s all junk. I don’t want a divorced Susan and Reed Richards, either. Either of them being single wouldn’t make them more relatable. The Marvel bosses have addicted themselves to the precept that Peter must be single to be popular — an idea for which there is no tangible proof, and 20 years of proof that it is not — and then, having crawled way out on a limb by insulting fans who recoiled from the abortion that was One More Day, the bosses would rather be fired than lose face. At this point, after 15 years, this is about their own face-saving, not what’s best for the series.

33. Sth: Apparently so. Even the applause I got wasn’t good enough.

    Mario: I 100% agree with you. I have been silent for far too long on this matter and when Nick Spencer came and left, I gave Beyond a try and it was decent enough, but now here we are again and this time. I’m not staying silent. Funny thing is, it’s NOT just my opinion. The majority of fans want Peter and MJ married or moving in that direction. Spencer gave us what we wanted, Wells only met us half way. I will continue to fight back.

    Kelli: Not sure who that is, assuming anime content, but all for it. Spider-Man/Peter Parker should be allowed this win to make his character even stronger than before. That is what would make him great.

    Joshua: We should have saw it coming, but we continued to hope. Now we have confirmation from the the EIC. Sad day to be a Spidey fan.

    Adan: Muchas gracias Adán. ¡Estoy muy feliz de que lo hayas disfrutado! ¡La responsabilidad que Peter podría tener tiene un esposo para Mary Jane solo fortalece a ambos personajes! ¡MJ tendría la responsabilidad de mantener a Peter en el suelo y sensato! Tan identificable de muchas maneras.

    Mike: I’ll let you know.

34. Chi-Town, how can we help prove you right?

35. Petition for Peter & MJ:

    https://www.change.org/p/marvel-please-remarry-peter-and-mj/psf/share?source_location=combo_psf&psf_variant=combo&share_intent=1

36. Me gustó mucho este reportaje, es cierto que un spuder Man que muestra responsabilidad con los que ama y aún más con una esposa, es mucho más identificable. Y hasta da esa sensación de admiración.

37. This isn’t surprising. The ending to the Kindred Saga several months back made it crystal clear that Marvel has zero desire to reverse the effects “One More Day” and will even go as far as derailing an over two years worth of stories to make sure it remains intact.

38. Peter B from Into the Spider-Verse, a Peter Parker in his late 30s, still in love with his wife Mary Jane, unexpectedly resonated with so many people of all ages and demographics that they’re bringing this character back in its sequel! The existence of this version of the character proves Marvel’s belief that he has to be young to be relatable to be so incredibly wrong and out of touch.

    If Goku can be a husband and a father and have his kids grow up before viewers’ eyes and still remain the main character of a long going fan favorite anime then so can Spider-Man.

39. Being Stagnant is not relatable. Striving for love is relatable, finding love is relatable, being in love, being loved is relatable. no matter man, or women, or whatever it’s why we are here and why we exist. Mary jane and Peter had a journey that led them together naturally. the best idea that the editorial could come up with is to undo all of that because they couldn’t think of ideas or write new stories anymore? taking away lots of continuity and story arc and that journey of peters and Maryjane’s marriage? i still can’t believe to this day they thought it was a good idea. i grew up with a married spider man and that made me love the character, his life was tough and shitty but at least he got the girl he found love and that gives him the strength to power through. i started collecting in 1989-2007. once they killed off the marriage I was done. it meant my whole collection mean nothing. and marvel expects me to buy books? when i started they were 1.00. now there are up to 4-5 for a character that has been ruined. a character that will not grow. a character that is stuck in a rut. because of editorial and their ridiculous mandate and philosophy hindering the greatest character ever created. being a man child is relatable to some, being stuck in a rut is relatable to some, and failure to launch in life is relatable to some. those things are not the reason we love the character or buy the books. we look to spiderman in positive ways, we look to him for heroism and triumph, both as spiderman and as Peter Parker. Peter needs to grow, peter needs to raise a family of his own. otherwise, what was the point of uncle ben? why an uncle? why not a friend he looked up to? family is everything and love drives us all and makes us heroes even if its in our homes. i stop buying and was about to start again if spencers run ended up what we all hoped it would be. All it did was anger me more. Marvel isn’t getting my money until they fix the character and spencer was at the verge of doing so. I really cant wait when the day comes when spencer can talk about what happened I really want to know. until then keep it up chi-town. Preach! keep the fight going! I’m willing to help in any way I can for this cause. Bring back the marriage and have them renew their vows!

40. Ok, so just to be clear: to marvel, a guy that can bench press a bus, cling to walls and feel incoming danger is relatable; but the same guy being married is a bridge to far?

    According to the US census, 50% of the population 15+ is married (down from 52%)

    So half of the us population is completely unrelatable. These kids with married parents can NOT comprehend the concept.

    Marvel is going the DC way. Leave your stupid personal opinion at the door and write actual good stories.