OK – I read this thing. You may have to or you may have just heard people reacting online. What do you need to know? How are Peter and MJ like the Lannisters? What’s the deal with Peter and Felicia and what does this mean going forward? Come on in and let Dark Mark break down what needs to be taken from all of this.
Credit Where Credit Is Due
Guest Writer: Joe Kelly
Guest Pencils: Terry Dodson
Guest Inker: Rachel Dodson
Guest Colorist: Terry Dodson
Letterer: VC’s Joe Caramanga
Cover Artists: John Romita, Jr, Scott Hanna, and Marco Menyz
Asst. Editor: Kaeden McGahey
Editor: He Who Must Not Be Named
Remedial ASM 101
Peter went on a date with Felicia, but it was to the same place as MJ and that dream boat Paul was. So they left when there was a minor earthquake that Peter recognized as the Shocker’s work. When they arrived, they found that White Rabbit and our favorite henchman, Kareem, were using stolen Sinister Six gear to let rich guys pretend to be supervillains. Pretend, that is, until they kill one of their own and turn on our heroes!
In-School Suspension
It appears the recap page has taken a step back from its claims last issue. Last issue many of you were upset that it revealed that MJ was married to Paul, but this one describes him as MJ’s “new man Paul”, which certainly seems to scream more ‘boyfriend’ than ‘husband’. My assumption is that Nick Lowe just wasn’t doing his job and is back pedaling, but I don’t know how far in advance these things are printed.
The Story – Pay Attention, This Will Be on the Test
Spidey and his not as amazing friends easily take down the bad guys, though it does take the majority of the issue to do it. In the end, it turns out that the rich guy who was killed wasn’t really killed, but just faking it in one of the worst professional development exercises ever.* The police take them away, though I am not sure what actual crime they committed other than fighting Spider-Man, White Rabbit and Kareem get away, the Sinister Six gear is destroyed (by one blast from Shocker’s bracelets no less (must have been on high)), and Peter says some . . . things to Felicia.
OOTI (Onomatopoeia of the Issue)
On a scale of 1 (POW) to 10 (BLRKBQRKPQRBLNB), BADOOM rates a solid 6. It’s OK, a little small, not too cliché, but not overly original. Probably one of the better aspects of this issue.
Analysis
The Fight – Nothing really to take away here. It wasn’t a hard battle for Spidey. He wasn’t the buffoon who can win despite the odds stacked in his favor. The jokes during the fight were, in my opinion, subpar. Kareem wet his pants. White Rabbit gave Black Cat dating advice. All in all, most of this issue was meant in fun and relatively harmless filler. I have no problems with that. Personally, I did not enjoy the Silicon Six, but certainly was not offended by how things played out. We could get into plot holes centering around the Sinister Six gear and how inconsistent it is with the rest of canon, but why. The biggest take away from that is we get to see just how powerful Shocker’s gear is. It caused earth quake tremors felt a good ways away. It destroyed all of the Sinister Six’s gear with one blast. I guess Kareem is lucky that it didn’t hurt him since he wasn’t wearing protective quilts at the time.
The Spider-Sense – This was pretty cool way to use the sense. Mysterio wannabe was using invisibility and Spidey’s spider-sense kept picking up, even though Spidey couldn’t quite figure out what was wrong (yes, I know it was snowing so he should have seen the footprints, but it’s not really a big deal). I thought it was clever. Then we get this beauty? Monstrosity?
Not sure I like the sense spelling things out for me, the reader, but I can’t say that I didn’t like it either. It was different and I can’t say that I have seen it done like this. I have seen it where caption boxes described what the sense was picking up, but not like this. I don’t want more of it, but I think I like it here.
The BIG PROBLEM – And so, this issue was about to close out as Douglas Adams might say, “mostly harmless” – until we get to the last two pages.
There were a lot of ways Peter could have said this. I don’t believe Kelly is actively trying to sabotage this character. I honestly believe, based on the rest of the issues, he can’t write this stuff. Maybe he can in other books, but he hasn’t shown it here. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect Peter at this point to say something along the lines of he has history with MJ and that will never not be a part of him. But then have him follow up with that he and Felicia have history too and he is going to try to make their future work. I think we can all see something like that coming. MJ has made her decision for whatever reasons (that supposedly we’ll find out soon) and Peter is not in her future as of right now. Peter has done everything short of physically attacking Paul. It is OK for Peter to pursue other options until we get this six months thing taken care of.
But sister? SISTER? What the limbo, Peter? Even Black Cat has problems with that. I’m grossed out by that comparison and I teach MYTHOLOGY. You know how sick some of that is?
When he says that word, all I can here is this:
Also, he now doesn’t really love her? Dude you went from “Every Breath You Take” to lowercase love? In an issue? That’s about as fast as Romeo dropped Rosaline.
Why am I not angry? (and why YOU should not be either) – Easy. One, it’s fun seeing Chi-Town having to breathe in a paper bag to get through this comic. But I am not one to cut off my nose to spite my face. This is poor writing. The biggest take away you need from this is:
THIS. DOESN’T. MATTER.
How can I say this? Let’s look at the facts:
- Kelly is a guest writer. Lowe has made no bones about it. They have it all over the recap page. They have it all over the solicits. Marvel is SCREAMING at us to just have fun with these issues while we wait for the big reveal. “But,” you may be saying, “it’s now official! It’s now canon!” To that I have to say, “Stop interrupting me. It’s rude. I spent time on this review. Hear me out.”
- To adapt a phrase from Orwell, “All stories are canon. Some stories are more canon that others.” Folks, there is nothing – NOTHING – in these last two issues that will matter in the years to come. NOTHING. What matters about Peter, Felicia, Paul, and MJ is what happens in issues 21-26. So why get worked up over this. I chalk it up to a poor issue. Wells is not beholden to anything other than Peter and Felicia finally went on that date and Peter wants to explore a relationship with Felicia. None of that is new. None of that is shocking. We knew about the date already and we knew that if he wanted to go on a date with her, he would want a relationship with her. So I’m not fretting over anything here until Wells gives us his big reveal.
I have more important things to worry about than some filler issue that had bad writing, bad editing, bad jokes, and fairly good art. Plus it had several good words in it. Which should I pick? I know!
I did that for you, Aqu@!
Final Grade
The story itself was pretty harmless, but those last few panels, well, if you wanted people to be excited or hopeful for a potential relationship here, you did it wrong. Story itself, probably a D+ or even C- (factoring in the spider-sense panel). However, it didn’t end there. It ended with Peter saying MJ was more like his sister than he doesn’t love her. I’m not ready to F this grade since, as I pointed out above, it means so little with what is coming, so…
D-
But Wait! There’s More!
What could be the most shocking thing in the last 50 years? I have the answer!
Well, maybe.
Gwen Stacy died exactly 50 years ago, and with the panels with faces in them, it certainly smells like a death foretelling. With the truth being revealed, I am assuming we will finally know what happened to Mary Jane and Paul (he’s so perfect for her!). Here’s what we can break down:
We can rule out something shocking happening to anyone in the bottom two rows. They are not important enough to warrant a big spread like this and are only included here because Peter’s supporting cast has been virtually non-existent as of late.
Third Row – nothing shocking will happen to Torch of Cap in this book, but Black Cat? Maybe.
Second Row – Ms. Marvel is not going to have anything shocking here, but we could see something happen to JJJ, but I think either is unlikely. Aunt May is fair game.
Top Row – It is possible that Norman gets his sins back and causes the shocking thing to happen (a la 50 years ago). I doubt his getting his sins back IS the shocking thing. That leaves MJ and Paul. We have had no real connection with Paul yet. There is no reason to care if he dies or not other than to get him out of MJ’s life. So I think we can safely say that something “shocking” will happen to MJ or Black Cat (as a result of something dealing with MJ).
So what could warrant the claim that it is the MOST SHOCKING ISSUE since 121?
–MJ dies – doubtful since she is a major money maker. Marvel gave her an alternate cover on pretty much every comic they put out a while back and THEY ALL SOLD.
–Black Cat dies – possible, but doubtful. She can hold her own in a solo series.
–Aunt May dies (again) – which has some Mephisto-deal repercussions that now opens Peter and MJ to deal with the problem. This is both highly improbable and highly likely at the same time. Improbable because Marvel has not wanted to touch the deal since it was made. Also, it seemed that Spencer was going to address it, but then it was hijacked by editorial. BUT – what if Lowe hijacked it because they wanted to address it another way that Spencer did not – causing the friction that led to Spencer’s leaving? What if this is the way they want to address it? In that scenario, this could be suddenly become likely.
Longshot theory – Norman, sins back and in control, puts Peter in a situation where he can only save one – MJ or Aunt May. It is a split decision, but definitively made – he saves MJ (just like before). This undoes the deal where he sacrificed his life with MJ to save Aunt May. Aunt May dies, but Peter is now free to be with MJ (but of course, the guilt of his choice ruins any chance of a relationship. MJ moves away. Black Cat sees he will never love her and leaves him. Peter is lonely, but free to find the next love of his life…
What’s Next?
WHAT HAPPENED TO PETER AND MARY JANE?!
It’s time. This arc will answer your questions including…
WHAT DID PETER DO?!
Who caused all of this?
Folks, our good friend Chi-Town is finally getting off his lazy rear end and is going to review this issue of ASM. I don’t remember the las t one he reviewed. I think it was in the single digits and Slott was writing….
* Though not THE worst professional development exercise ever – that might just go to the school here in America that decided to test teacher’s reactions to an active shooter situation by hiring people to come in with gun replicas and fire blanks during a teacher faculty meeting. There was another one somewhere in Omaha that fired blanks (without telling them) at a emotional trauma worker’s PD so that they could understand the people who needed emotional help dealing with various traumatic events.
‘Nuff Said!
Apple Podcasts
Google Podcasts
Spotify
Pandora
Amazon Music
iHeartRadio
Podbean
Amazon Alexa
Player.fm
Listen Notes
Stitcher
Hallow’s Eve #1 was out this week, and it was pretty awesome. Mary Jane & Black Cat continues to be stellar, as does Gold Goblin. Red Goblin is quite good too, although it is more of a Venom spin-off. And speaking of Venom, is continues to be a weird ride, but an entertaining one.
The frustrating thing is, out of all the Spider-Man books, the main title continues to be the weakest. I can’t help but wonder why we couldn’t have seen some of these storylines play out in the main title.
A Black Cat spin-off book is fine, but the character development and conflict between Mary Jane and Black Cat in Mary Jane & Black Cat has been so much more interesting than in the main title.
Plus Norman Osborn’s story should be at the core of the Spider books, every time I read Gold Goblin, I love every issue, I just wish it was playing out in Amazing Spider-Man.
Dealing with Hallows’ Eve in a solo book is fine, it is incredibly well written, but I feel like the core book would have been enrichened by having Erica Schultz tell her story as a guest writer there and involving Spider-Man.
I’m glad we have these spin-offs. But I can’t help but feel by having all these Spider-Man stories told elsewhere, that it takes away from the core book. I’d much rather be dealing with how MJ and Felicia feel about each other, whether Ashley Kafka will lead Norman back into darkness, or Janine’s descent into villainy in the core book, rather than was with have coming up, which is an uninteresting mystery based on the editorial mandated break-up of Peter and MJ which feels entirely unearned and forced.
Zeb Wells is a good writer, with good ideas, but so much of this run just feels so uninteresting and flat to me. I don’t think I’ve ever felt this uninterested in a Spider-Man book. Say what you want about One More Day or Sins Past, but they were at least interesting stories which shook things up. I feel absolutely no excitement for anything coming up in the core book at the moment.
Sister? SISTER?! Ugh…
I’ll just pretend these two issues never happened.
*as a campaign mascot
@Mark — Well, it is your review, after all. But that particular order of names has the added bonus of lending itself well to having the Living Brain has a campaign mascot.
@Chi-Town and @Evan
Chi-Town – Your request to have a *insert name* Was Right! shirt has been reviewed by the Crawlspace Committee and has been denied due to insufficient qualifications. If you wish to resubmit your claim, you may do so after a period of no less than 18 business days.
Evan – I approve, but only because you put my name first.
ALFORD NORBOT 2024
One Web. One Destiny. And a Peter in every Pot.
Mark: “George – You come onto my review to say you agree with Peter? Geez! That hurts.”
George: “I mean, when he’s right, he’s right!”
You read it here FIRST folks, right here on Dark Mark’s review. “Chi-Town is correct” T-Shirts go on sale soon!
@JeffGamer, @George, @Anthony, @Aqu@
Jeff – Ah! I misread the statement – thanks for the clarification. Yeah, in that case, it could work. I do want them to at least acknowledge the deal, as well, even if they don’t undo it or use it to get them back together. I do like the twist that to keep May protected, they can’t get back together. If we are going to have this tension, that at least makes sense. I do wish we could have seen Spencer’s original ending to Kindred as it seemed he wanted to tackle this. You are right in that the MOST SHOCKING STORY IN 50 YEARS could all be flashback. I had kinda hoped that we would be back into the current time by that point. I absolutely HATE flashbacks, but do acknowledge we need one to tell this mystery story.
George – 🙁
Anthony – Holy cow, man. I sure hope Nick Lowe doesn’t read that idea in your comment. Then again, watching Chi-Town melt down when he realizes Peter IS Paul… well, that may just be worth the train wreck! 🙂
Aqu@ – Yea! Someone read the tags! 🙂
Busy week and I’m late to the party. I don’t have time to read every comment right now, so apologize if someone already said what I’m going to.
It’s not the first time Spider-sense is depicted as words spelling out the danger. I think it happened recently in the infamous Non-Stop Spider-man.
I think the sister comparison was Peter awkwardly trying to minimize MJ’s role in his life, to ease Felicia of what he thinks could be a burden to their relationship. It’s not written well, and at this point in time, it’s probably bad characterization.
Also, I’m not an expert in relationships, but I think it’s possible for love feelings to evolve in time (and maybe after some kind of rift between people) into a kind of deep friendship, an affection on the level of siblings.
Mark, I don’t know if you wrote the VWOTI for me or you used that nice specific example for me, but in both cases I’m honored and amused. LOL
About future issues and shocking reveals: MJ dying is not that far-fetched.
Consider this:
-they do seem uncapable of using her properly as a character, in particular due to the weight of OMD. Every time she appears in the book there’s the chasm (pun intended) between what fans want and what editorial board “needs”. She has become an inconvenience, a burden. Not unlike what happened with Gwen Stacy.
-Chi-town has gotten a pretty clear statement on MJ and the marriage from Cebulski months ago: “I’m sorry, but I can’t give you an answer that’ll make you happy.” What if the reason why was because they planned to kill her?
-the marketing aspect of MJ being a money maker won’t be that big of an issue. I mean, look at Gwen Stacy: she’s been dead for 50 years and yet they still monetize her character in a form or another today. I would even go as far as saying she became a money maker because of her death.
-they could always bring MJ back later, it has been done already multiple times with other characters. Which brings me to…
It’s not clear from solicitations, but I thought those “shocking” issues were set in the past 6 months. So she may have already died and have been brought back in some way, giving her powers in the process.
On a side note, in my country that kind of professional development exercise you describe would bring legal (probably penal) consequences for scaremongering to the organizers.
Also, LOL at the tags: “Calm down chi-town”.
Personally I chalk up the sister thing to Peter joking and bad writing. As soon as he said it Black Cat auto rejected it because of how ridiculous it was so he had to rephrase. This is Joe Kelly, a Deadpool writer who gave Spider-Man and Deadpool a child via freaky DNA stuff in Spider-Man/ Deadpool. Concerned with Spider-Man and Mary Jane’s relationship he is not.
I looked at it in the same way you’d tell your new girlfriend about your old girlfriend in a way that will keep her happy. “She wasn’t all that but your all that. ” Which is what you’d say to stay out of the doghouse. The exchange was still written very poorly though.
This is just my take from it but I don’t read The Amazing Spider-Man anymore anyway so I could be mistaken. Spider-Man is still married to Mary Jane in Spider-Man Lost Hunt and the brilliant Peter David is writing his Joe Fix It book in a way that can be read with Spider-Man married or not, totally up to you. This is where my pocket change will go.
My guess for the big reveal? Paul is Peter and he’s married to Mary Jane. At one point, Peter thought he was going to die so he made a Clone conspiracy / X-Men Krakoan type clone of himself. Stuff happened and it turned out he didn’t die. Similar to what’s going on with X-23 now. So he is married to Mary Jane, consciously aware the Paul persona is fake or not. The kids are their time displaced kids from the future.
LMAO but again, I’m not reading the book but I’m thinking it’s something like that. As for why Fake Peter was ‘judged’ during Judgement Day, I mean Lizard’s family has their souls in tact so Fake Pete has something like that and gets to be judged. I dunno, my head hurts ROFL!
Issue 25 cover — “The truth revealed…”
Issue 26 cover — “…but at what cost?”
The whole story arc could ostensibly be mostly told in flashback…probably will be, given how prominent Peter AND MJ are on those covers. The truth revealed could be, well, what I already conjecturized — “we were married in a previous timeline.” The cost could be whatever led to that crater at the beginning of the current run. I’d suggest “a town wiped out”…but they would have had bigger repercussions in the recent issues, so no, though that WOULD be a big cost. I think the cost is the relationship between MJ and Peter…because, if they get back together or if Peter pursues it further, Aunt May dies…or a town gets wiped out. Issue #9 — “we can’t do this, Peter…I’m trying to be the responsible one.”
Peter was mostly estranged from Aunt May at the beginning of this run, too. Honestly, if I now knew that I had to give up the love of my life to protect my Aunt, I might feel awkward and estranged from my Aunt for a while as I come to terms with my Sophie’s Choice.
I don’t know what Marvel’s storyline will reflect, but this all makes so much sense to ME if I were crafting the storyline.
And, yeah, Stuart…it’s stunning how willing Marvel has been to keep on sticking the knife into the readers’ guts and then twisting it. The book was better pre-BND, the characters more relatable…the loyalty to Marvel was more earned until then. It’s kinda stunning how this stuff still feels painful to confront after all this time.
“George – You come onto my review to say you agree with Peter? Geez! That hurts.”
I mean, when he’s right, he’s right!
Just a quick correction, Dark Mark: I’m not saying that, in the Marvel Universe, Peter and MJ are still married. They erased that reality in OMD…we’re in the Q-Verse version of Marvel since that ugly storyline, and in the Q-Verse, they never got married…and the Marvel powers-that-be insist that they’re never going to fix their mistake or even acknowledge that it WAS one. But I AM saying that MJ clearly remembers that timeline…Spencer seemed to be making that crystal clear, which I honestly very much appreciated, because it was REAL, we all lived it, most of us LOVED it, and Marvel SHOULD, as said earlier in this thread, treat their marriage as canon and part of the existing and rich tapestry that is this characters multi-decade history. We as readers deserve a bit of respect in that way. If MJ remembers it…and if Peter were made to either remember it or believe that it was a reality he can no longer, through demonic influence, recall…then the marriage itself still exists, not in the legal sense in the Marvel Universe, but in their memories, and they can remember the feeling, the depth, that being committed and married brought. I WANT them to remember the truth. And, if he did learn that his marriage had existed, it could have motivated Peter to try to move heaven…well, hell…to make things right again. It’s what he does.
I don’t honestly know if Marvel is bold enough to finally confront OMD head-on the way I’m describing, so they may have come up with some other explanation for everything that’s gone down. But, with time, they eventually began acknowledging Ben Reilly and the original clone saga again, so it could be that enough time has gone by that they’re willing to stop treating that debacle as the black sheep they never really acknowledge. And an OMD follow-up, to me, would be the most sensible reason for most of what had been going down.
BTW — Quick correction from earlier….I forgot, I DID buy one other Marvel series after OMD. Renew Your Vows. I wanted to do my part in saying that if Marvel has their marriage back, I’ll be giving Marvel my money again…even after all this time.
@Everyone!
I checked this morning and saw a long rant by Stuart and thought, OK, I’ll come back when I have more time this afternoon and try to address it. Come back to 14 responses! I won’t be able to do you all justice, but here it goes:
Stuart – You may be right about Marvel intentionally antagonizing their readers. When people get upset, it hits the news. The news generates publicity and numbers. Look at Velma getting so hate watched that it got another season. But it may just be a disconnect from fans. I remember an interview with a former NPR journalist. He said he can see a bias now that he is out of it, but he never felt that they were biased while working there. He said he thinks it is because everyone in the news room basically felt the same way politically, so they all wanted to report on stuff that they we interested in. There was no one there to even broach the opposite side. It’s not that it was intentionally ignored as much as never thought of in the first place. Maybe something like that is going in on the Spider-Office and there is not real fan representation. You have Lowe and he’s bringing in then stats, so they keep going with what they are doing. Maybe.
Sthenurus – MJ and Paul’s wedding – bold move! I would absolutely hate it, but if that is what it is, we’ll be printing the STHENURUS WAS RIGHT shirts immediately.
Chi-Town – you’re right. Your pain plus the worded spider-sense was enough to move it from an F to a D-. 🙂 Nah, your pain plus the fact that I don’t think this will matter in respects to what is coming up. If what comes up is the same, then I’m with you. But until then, I’ll remain a beacon on hope.
Patrick Stack – HAHAHAHA! You win!
Evan – I thought Cap and Torch were in here because they just haven’t explored his supporting cast, but I think you are right. They will have to deal with Peter being an outcast right now and these characters will be instrumental in bringing him back to good graces. Belies – good word! I would love you suggestions for the cover if Patrick hadn’t already put out Forbush Man!
Paul Penna – I agree that this wasn’t bad as a filler. It did the job of keeping the story going – until, of course that last bit. Make things fun filler or be serious – trying to combine the two doesn’t work for me. I don’t have a problem with Peter exploring other options either, though I would like a Spencer-esque relationship.
Jeff – Welcome back! I love your comments – keep them coming as we jump into this next round! MJ and Peter are still married – not sure I agree with it, but it sure is an interesting premise. Interesting enough for me to get ready to unleash the JEFF WAS RIGHT shirts just in case! It does feel like Peter was trying to convince himself and was just awkward in getting the phrasing out. Maybe Kelly was trying to show just how awkward he was being. I do agree that these words really hold no power over any storyline involving MJ and Peter going forward other than adding a bit of complexity with Peter not wanting to hurt Felicia again.
George – You come onto my review to say you agree with Peter? Geez! That hurts.
In reviewing the silhouette of the cover to the next issue, I’ve come to the conclusion that the one who “caused all of this” is either Judge Doom from Who Framed Roger Rabbit or Bert from Sesame Street.
I am with Chi-Town on this. With Marvel’s track record of forcing editorial narratives I can see Lowe making this the new stance: “She’s his sister! You know, that he used to live with and be married to!”
The “sister” thing is asinine and offensive, and it’s a slap in the face to Spencer’s run. This banal crap would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic and sad.
Actually…one more thang:
You break up with someone and you have to try to convince yourself you’re over them when they’ve made it clear there’s no getting back together in the cards…you might say things like “I don’t love her anymore” and “I’m over it” and “I kinda still love her but like a friend or sister now.” It’s all self-deceptive comments to try to move on and heal. I don’t think that’s an unrealistic thing for him to say. But if MJ were to come to him and say, “I can’t do this separation thing anymore. We both made a mistake when Quesa…well…when we were compelled to make the deal with the Red One. Let’s fight for our marriage, Peter. We can’t do it in a way that’s going to cause another crater…but, dang it…in the real reality, we swore nothing would tear us apart. If we need to fight the devil in order to defend and reclaim a marriage that we swore to protect…let’s do it.”…well, he might feel a pang of guilt if he’s hurting Felicia in the process…but this is his wife. This is her husband. He’d do it. Heck, he’d get Aunt May’s blessing if she knew, too. No matter what he said about “love her like a sister”, he’d fight for his love, his stolen wife and marriage. Until this is undone…no matter what else you may say…in the Spider-Man world, Marvel has left it so that the devil won. And that should not stand.
First…hello, all! It’s been a long time since I’ve actually posted anything on Crawl Space…had to reopen my account even. After a couple of years of raising the roof after the abominable One More Day, I had to step away for my own sanity. Actually swore off buying comics over the couple of years after that happened…especially Marvel…but swore that if they reversed One More Day, I’d subscribe to the SM titles in an instant. Until the last couple of months, I have only busted that boundary twice (including Spencer’s final issue, where I had hopes he might finally deal with OMD and restore Peter’s memory of his marriage). Didn’t happen…and recent announcements at conventions apparently show that editorial still hasn’t come its senses. *SIGH* Can’t stand that they still have this stance. I do still read…gotta love the library system, I can read without giving “the offenders” my money…and I did also finally start buying monthly again…my love for Miracleman redated OMD by a decade or two, so when new issues finally started publishing, I had to get in.
Second…Stuart, we go way back, and, responding to your comments, I say, “Amen, Brutha!” Always felt a keen affinity for you and several others…I love that you’re still here and as offended as I still am.
I want to put my hat in the ring for a few things regarding the Peter/MJ relationship and “What did Peter do?” So here are my conjectures (sorry if this repeats anything others have already written, I’ve been holding this separately for too long) — these are the conjectures and ways I would think things would be written IF Marvel were willing to acknowledge the OMD debacle fully:
1. It’s seems crystal clear from Spencer’s run that they are saying Mary Jane remembers EVERYthing. It’s probably part of what she whispered to *COUGHCOUGH* Mephisto in that despised storyline. After all, her remembering and not being able to tell anyone, including Peter, would certainly be more suffering from the Red One to savor. And, multiple times throughout that storyline, she would state “Stop torturing Peter. He doesn’t remember!” It’s clear that SOMEone DOES.
2. Given #1 above, I would conjecture that she stayed away from him for the BND period precisely because she did not trust herself to not tell Peter the truth. She had to break away if she was to have any chance to heal.
3. When she returned to being Peter’s girlfriend at the beginning of Spencer’s run, she felt enough time had gone that she could be in his life again without the baggage of knowing they were married. “It’s us…it’s always been you and me.”
So….what did Peter do? Here’s my conjecture…I’m putting it out there before #21-25 gets released…and, note, I am only 8 issues into the current run, as the library hasn’t gotten the new ones in yet, so I only know what I’ve read here from master reviewer Alford and others):
At the end of Spencer’s run…Peter finds out that he and Mary Jane had been married and sold their marriage to the devil in order to “save Aunt May”. How did he find out? Not sure…it could be that he proposed (as he was planning) and MJ spilled the beans, saying I cannot marry you because…well…there’s a deal with the devil going on here. And Aunt May’s life may be at stake. She may not say “we were married”…towing the line of the deal…but she can convey enough that he gets the picture. (Also, it’s possible that the whole Dr.-Strange card game with the Red One may have loosened the deal somewhat?)
Fueled by rage and wanting to be able to marry MJ…or to restore his marriage if he does know the truth now…he decides to take the fight directly to Mephisto. He can’t go to Dr. Strange…Strange is, at the moment, dead…so he goes to Reed Richards for help summoning Mephisto…or going straight to Mephisto’s realm…or whathaveyou. Reed refuses. Peter takes whatever device could help him take on Mephisto without Reed’s permission. It goes major-league sour…hence the ground zero image of Peter in his tattered costume and his single, “Buh.”
MJ realizes that Peter cannot handle being with her now that he is aware of the truth…his sense of responsibility and justice and guilt will torture him, and he wants to continue to fight…so she breaks it off with him and insists he not contact her. That fast-forwards to the current situation.
As for this thing with Paul…seems kinda fast. One possibility is that it’s, emotionally/psychologically/spiritually, a way for MJ to seemingly move on with a degree of finality that maybe she can believe herself and that Peter is forced to accept. Another possibility is that Paul is a Mephisto minion and that, as a result of her insinuating the truth to Peter, she is being tortured with an “ideal family life” that isn’t what she really wants…a living hell that seems to be the opposite.
So…those are my thoughts. Am I likely to be correct? Who knows? Not sure Marvel has the willingness to “go there”. But it WOULD be a pretty monumental storyline consistent with what they’re building up to.
On a sidebar…I loved with JRjr was paired with JMS during their partnered run, right before the “stuff” hit the fans. Kinda bittersweet seeing his art paired with this new status quo…I love his art, it’s so…MATURE…and, symbolically, I wish it was only paired with the pre-OMD world.
Allll right…that’s more than enough for my inaugural post after a 10+ year absence. Long live Crawl Space!!
‘Nuff said!
@Evan yes and no.
Take chapter one as an example. While technically canon, no one ever refers to it. I guess that what was meant by “not canon”.
I forgot to add that, just because an issue is “filler” or written by a guest writer doesn’t mean it can ignore canon, does it? Unless it’s some sort of multi-versal-type story. Maybe I’m mistaken about that, but it seems like characters of this stature transcend the whims of the writer — or an editor.
That should read “What Peter says to Felicia…”
I guess I get emotional myself when writing about this, so please pardon my typos.
@Paul Penna — As a Paul, you *would* say that.
Just kidding! I appreciate your way of framing Peter’s “revelation” in terms of storytelling that makes sense. I’m just really confused as to why Nick Spencer’s run would end with a much better expression of Peter’s feelings for Mary Jane, the importance of the role she plays in his life, and how they are meant to be together.
What people says to Felicia belies all of that, and, for that reason alone which would be enough even if there were not more), this issue feels like a slap in the face, not only to fans, but to all the writers who contributed to the history, lore, and groundwork that led to this very issue, and to which, for consistency, needs to address it.
Those are just my thought. You don’t deserve any hate for your viewpoints. That was a thoughtful observation, and maybe it’s a way that the writers can justify to themselves the validity of such a development in the face of an editorial mandate. I just wish I understood how this could happen after how Nick Spencer’s run ended — apart from all the similar moments that came before it.
This issue was pretty forgettable. The Mycal/Mysterio is alive angle was a good twist, but I just wasn’t invested in the story. It was filler, and that’s it. I feel like, if they wanted to comment on Peter’s relationships with MJ and Felicia, they could’ve come up with something more relevant than this.
Peter’s speech was poorly handled. The flub, where he refers to MJ being like a sister is clearly him failing to articulate his feelings. The thing I think which makes the speech really not work, is that there is no in-story build up to this revelation. We would’ve needed an MJ heavy story for this to really feel earned, to see Peter work out his feelings, and the “Silicon Six” isn’t it.
Now, here is what might get me some hate, I actually agree with the sentiment that Peter isn’t in love with MJ anymore. As a writer (which I am), this is exactly how I’d handle the situation with Peter and MJ. Because if Marvel editorial won’t let Pete and MJ be together, you can’t keep teasing your audience with the idea that they will end up together but keep placing artificial road blocks to stop it from happening. You need a reason why they aren’t together anymore which makes sense.
In my mind, when Peter and MJ made their deal Mephisto, they not only gave up their marriage, they gave up being in love. They still love each other, but loving someone and being in love with them are two different things. Which is why, no matter how hard they try, they can’t make it work between them anymore.
I get how many people want Pete and MJ together, but it isn’t happening. And this, to my mind, is a good rationale for why the two of them can no longer make a relationship work.
@Mark — Wait, now Peter loves Mary Jane in the same way that he loves Teresa? I have as much a problem with that as you do. But I can understand what Sthenurus means in terms of his parents’ relationship, regarding acceptance without exception, more of philia than eros. But it’s still a weird choice of words for Peter to use when speaking to Felicia, of all people. It sounds like what a loser guy would say when accosted by his girlfriend when he’s out on a date with someone else: “No, she’s like my sister. Honest!”
Now I’m wondering if the speculation in the comments about Mary and Paul’s wedding as the “big shock” could be correct. It would lend credence to the idea that the “husband” mention in the previous recap page was an editorial error that was promptly corrected in this issue. Still, I would hope they don’t do this — It seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do. And I’m afraid we’ll never see Chi-Town again. Even if it’s his last review, I know it’ll be a good one!
I wondered why the heck Captain American and Johnny Storm are on the cover of issue 25. I guess both characters could arise in upcoming issues and maybe lend some context to their appearance on the cover of an issue that doesn’t come out until May, but as of right now, I’m thinking, “What do they have to do with anything?” Anyway, both characters have already died.
When you referred to yourself in the third-person in the intro, I thought, “Oh, boy. This one is going to bed good.” (And by “good” I mean “bad.”)
@Stuart Green — I’m glad you felt like ranting, though I’m sorry that any of us found ourselves in a position to be frustrated. Mark, in his prescience, knew that many of us might be upset, and maybe attempted to assuage some of our concerns in his review. Sometimes that’s the only way a person can get through, much less enjoy, books like this. But I love that we can write freely here at the Crawlspace, and know that we can find sympathy among other fans. And if you ask me, you never need to apologize for that.
Looking at the cover for issue #21: Am I the only one expecting Forbush Man?
I was heaving heavily at this abomination after I read it. For Joe Kelly to even think “Oh, I’ll have Peter compare MJ to my sister, and Felicia will quickly dismiss that..yeah, that’s good. I’m so clever!” and get away with it…speaks many volumes that Editorial Mandate is in complete control.
You are being way too kind (which is rare) in this grade. This was a flat out “F”. Not even the amounts of humor and the great artwork could save this editorial mandate driven issue. Now I know you enjoy my misery, which would explain the “passing” grade.
Ok. About the sister thing.
It doesn’t shock me. My parents, who have been married for 50 years, do say over time their relationship became more like a brother and sister -as in, the love and trust between them was becoming more important than the passion. As they grow older together they learn to love and accept one another for who they are, without the “blinds” that come with young love (“he/she will change x bad habit/attitude” and so on)
The complete 180 on Peter’s part doesn’t shock me too much either. a significant amount of time seemed to have passed since issue 1 (I’d say at least half a year) so about a year since the mystery thing happens. It’s enough time to try to move on. Do I like it? Absolutely not. But it does make sense.
The spider sense was done like that in non-stop/savage spider-man (about the only thing good about that dumpster fire)
The shocking thing? MJ and Paul wedding. Calling it now.
@stuart: DC has done a LOT of things that pissed fan.off. They did split Clark and Lois in the new 52; they teased everyone with the marriage of Catwoman and batman before abruptly dropping it. Don’t get me started on the whole John Kent thing.
In the marvel side of things, kitty and colossus almost getting married but splitting at the altar, while kitty goes in space to date star lord. Don’t get me started on the whole woke new warrior thing.
Both companies have been regularly crapping and trolling their fan bases. But as long as books sell, they will keep doing it. We may HATE (and trust me I’m right there with you in how you failed most of Spiderman since OMD) the direction of the book, ASM is still a top seller, and they won’t change a thing as long as it remains that way.
I respect your view Mark, I think your writing is excellent. That being said I’m afraid I disagree.
I think people should be angry. I’ve made my piece with Peter and MJ. I’d prefer them together but I know corporate has spoken.
I’m unhappy because this book shows readers no respect. That doesn’t mean I expect them to oblige to our every whim. But if they’re expecting $10 or more a month they should be able to present a consistent story.
Is Paul MJ’s husband or new man? And there is nothing in the last 20 issues, not to mention the last 700 that shows Peter has a platonic love for MJ.
All this on the eve of them pushing What Peter Did? Where we are being asked to buy an other priced issue promising to fridge someone. No more
If anyone feels the same I encourage them to save their money. Go buy some Epic collections and revisit the old stuff. Marvel are not going to change if you keep paying them.
This whole story has been an F. Then again, EVERY story has been an F from me since Nick Spencer left. Also, every story from “One More Day” into the “Brand New Day”, “One Moment In Time”, and Slott/”Superior” era gets an F from me.
I could still see Paul being M.J.’s new husband in the upcoming storyline and Marvel changed the wording in this Previously recap after seeing their reveal in the previous recap was published. Marvel totally spoiled Electro’s return from the dead in “Sinister War” and they have done nothing important with him or put him in a good story ever since, so this could’ve easily happened again. I’m also betting that Mary Jane could be the one to die, since nothing would be remotely close to as shocking as the death of Gwen Stacy. I could see it being Norman or Aunt May dying, but it’s been there, done that and neither death wouldn’t have the impact, and most importantly wouldn’t be as well told, as their previous stories of their respective deaths.
Also, Marvel continues to infuriate me to no end with the constant Mary Jane character assassination and now with Peter’s “sister” line. Guest writer or not, Joe Kelly knows, or at least SHOULD know, how important Mary Jane is, as well as to the fan backlash to this new run and having her with Paul. Considering we even saw Paul hit Peter in a flashback in a previous issue (Which one was it, anyway? #5? #6? Does it even matter at this point?), is anyone even going to shed a tear when the time comes that Paul leaves or is killed off? Peter’s response to Black Cat is forced writing to get the reader to go “Boo, M.J.! He’s FINALLY with Felicia!” This wasn’t earned. This wasn’t properly built up. This is out of character to Peter AND Felicia. And for Peter to spend literally every issue prior to Kelly’s run having Peter trying to talk to Mary Jane, wanting to be with Mary Jane, and still being in love with Mary Jane, to immediately go “Nah, I’m good. I LOVED her. Now I love YOU.” is not only forced and terrible writing, it’s disrespectful to the readers AND to the characters.
I’m sorry, but Nick Lowe, Zeb Wells, Dan Slott, John Romita Jr., Mark Bagley and everyone who’s worked on the Spider-Man comics over the last 15 plus years need to go and get replaced with people who care about the characters, will allow the characters in the Spider-Man books (most importantly Peter and M.J.) to actually grow, be written in character and have character development, and who would not intentionally anger the readers. That is my biggest problem with the Spider-Man comics: NO OTHER ONGOING COMIC DOES THIS. Literally no one. DC does not intentionally antagonize its readers and suddenly break up Clark Kent and Lois Lane, have Clark suddenly date someone else and have Lois end up with another man. Marvel does not suddenly break up Reed Richards and Susan Storm, have Reed go to space and date an alien, and have Susan end up with the Sub-Mariner just to spite the readers. No other comic book series does this. Only in the Spider-Man books do we get jabs at “One More Day” and the Mephisto deal, but not owning up to the consequences or try to undo the story no one wanted. Only in the Spider-Man books do we have the writers give fans “reality slaps” by having Peter date pointless and forgettable new love interests (Anyone see Michelle Gonzales or Carlie Cooper these days? Does anyone even REMEMBER Michelle or Carlie?). Only in the Spider-Man books do we see Spider-Man’s most popular and beloved supporting cast member, his girlfriend and his wife, written purposefully to be unlikable, to leave the comic for another superhero book like Iron Man, or to blame Peter for some reason that isn’t his fault. It’s gone on for nearly sixteen years and it needs to stop.
Also, @Mark Alford, you need to rephrase your section from “Why am I not angry? (And why YOU should be either)” to “Why am I not angry? (And why YOU shouldn’t be either)”. Clearly I’ve failed in not being angry, but sixteen years of having Marvel intentionally antagonize their readers will do that to a fan.
Anyway, thank you all for reading my rant. I have a feeling I’ll, unfortunately, be posting more rants like this than I want to in the near future. This is easily the worst era of Spider-Man comics that I, personally, have ever read and I hope Marvel changes things for the better sooner than later for our friendly neighborhood wall-crawler. Stay safe, True Believers, and thanks again.