Amazing Spider-Man writer Dan Slott recently told a poster at the Comic Book Resources Spider-Man forum to go F-themselves. A poster by the name of lejayjay had a snarky comment about Slott saying
It is jus a paycheck for Slott anyway. He’s not a real fan.
Slott then replied with this comment.
As a guy who turned down a side job this year for a paycheck that would’ve been over a third of his yearly income– BECAUSE it would’ve meant cutting back on his not-so-lucrative comic book writing career– and get in the way of working on his Spider-Man dream job…
…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…
…this is the first time I think I’ve ever said this to somebody over a comic book message board:
Go fuck yourself.
Seriously.
Go. Fuck. Yourself.
Now I post this not to bring up the Slott/ Crawlspace disagreement again, but it opens a good point of discussion.
Should the pro’s be held to a different standard when it comes to online behavior?
Should they bite their tongues?
Are they risking future sales to an already small audience, when they tell a potential or current customer to go f-themselves?
I’d like your thoughts in the comment section or on this thread on our message board. Remember no personal attacks, keep it civil. Refresh yourselves on the rules before you post.
CBR has since deleted the post however Google was able to take a cache of it before it was deleted. Here’s the link.
Kevin, I believe that you believe this and I hope I never have to work for you…which is something you’ll hear a lot given your point of view.
I do have limits on what I say (though I’ve never been told the limitsdirectly. I’m just smart and have common sense about that kind of thing).
Dan doesn’t live by the same rules because the freelancer/company relationship is very different. Not theoretically different… but specifically and legally different. You not wanting to believe in that doesn’t make it untrue or unimportant.
On another note…i was just curious that given how quickly and selectively the rules are applied here…with posts being erased for being deemed offensive…why is the original post up top even allowed? (misleading headline and all)
SW
by Kevin’s “last post” I meant post #48. Sorry.
While I question whether this needed to be on the front page or not, I’ll say this: I REALLY don’t care what Slott does in his free time. And, as I understand it, he was having a bad day and people were getting on his nerves. I probably would’ve reacted similarly to how he did. Could’ve been dealt with some other day? Absolutely. Was it unprofessional? You bet. But sometimes there is really only one way to deal with obnoxious people, even if you have to pay for the consequences later on. If he thinks the satisfaction of what he did outweight the consequences of his actions, then I’ll gladly look the other way and read some comic books.
@Fred
If a “customer” was to tell me that I was just collecting a paycheck, and didn’t care about what I do, and I responded the way Dan did, I seriously doubt that I would be fired. Maybe a trip to HR, but fired after responding to that kind of remark? Doubtful. It’s not the way to go, but it’s not the nuclear bomb that people are making it out to be either.
And let’s clear up one more thing, Dan Slott said this to one poster. I know the heading of this thread says he told a fan to f “themselves”, and Kevin has repeated that in his last post that he said it to “fans”, it was to one individual, not fans in general who don’t like his writing. There IS a difference, and I hope that it was an oversight, and not a well placed “slip”.
“I’ll say this, Kevin, you are much nicer in e-mail when you want something and your friends aren’t looking.”
Kevin is actually being nice here Steve and has explain his position quite well.
@Stephen Wacker: If you guys choose to post at message boards, you should be held accountable for your words in the same way that other users are. Frankly, if anyone on this message board told another poster to “go fuck yourself” he or she would probably be banned. Permanently.
It’s obvious that CBR treats you guys differently, and that’s just crap.
I’ll say this, Kevin, you are much nicer in e-mail when you want something and your friends aren’t looking.
Anyway what is this “harping” you are harping about? I think you’re changing the subject.
SWS
I’m not sure why I–or anyone else– need to be limited by the rules and standards that other people are given at their jobs.
My suspicion is that people aren’t really offended. They just like the conversation and criticism to be a one-way street.
Most people anyway.
SW
Steven, we all know that the world does not work the way we want it to. That’s not the point. if any of us in our work place did what Dan did, freelance or not to a customer, we would be fired. it has nothing to do with free thinking, it has to do with being professional, which Dan has proven with his behavior to be not.
As for Marvel, controlling the thoughts and speech and open honest conversation, that’s another subject all together.
Is it within Slott’s right to defend himself? Sure. However, getting belligerent with someone to the point of cussing them out reflects pretty poorly on him as a so-called “professional.”
One thing to point out, though: people need to stop pretending that this is the first time someone on the ASM creative team has acted like this with the fans. Hell, I linked to some pretty hardcore trolling by Wacker and Slott in my last review, so this is practically the culmination of behavior that they’ve been engaging in for WEEKS now, at the very least. (I wouldn’t even put it past them to have done so INTENTIONALLY … but that’s a conspiracy for another day, I guess.)
Kevin, the world doesn’t work that way you seem to want it to…which is actually good if you like open , honest conversation…but bad if you don’t like to be witness to Dan Slott kvetching.
You seem very much FOR the idea of corporations controlling the thoughts and speech of freelancers which I think is a dangerous, slippery slope.
All that said…can i judge this website by the fact that many users say goofy, wrong-headed, mean-spirited stuff that they make up? That answer seems to generally be no.
SW
@Kevin Cushing
I hate going to bat for Slott like this, because he was WRONG to do what he did. However, we can’t expect writers or artists to respond like they are selling Widgets at WidgetMart. Dan has professed his love for this character, in fact calling it his dream job, and some dope chose to insult him in a way that would be offensive to anyone doing what they have a deep passion for. Instead of looking at it like as someone in a business, I would instead look at it more like what would happen if someone said that to say, Stephen King, or those types. I suspect the person would get a similar response, although I will grant that a famous author could probably absorb more loss of sales than a comic book writer.
Also, if we insist on looking at it as an employee/customer example, I would ask that you consider if this conversation took place in a bar, and someone came up to you and said you do what you love for a paycheck, not because you have a passion for what you do. Would we be as willing to turn the other cheek? Again, I don’t think so, despite what some posters on here would lead us to believe. Again, I hope we don’t ever find ourselves in similar positions, because I doubt we will be as calm and collected as we would like to think we are.
Why is what Kevin said in post #38 okay? You can tell someone off as long you say you aren’t? Very un-not-yet-professional.
As some one I know once said, “but I understand the reasoning for why he would react this way. But he needs to get off the damn computer.”
SW
Dan is not an employee and isn’t held to the same standards I am.
SW
Marvel does a nice job of policing their message boards on their site and preventing fans from discussing certain issues.
Perhaps Marvel now needs to attach that same philosophy with their talent.
In today’s day and age, no company should want an employee telling a potential customer to go “F” themselves. Because you’re not just alienating one fan when you do that. The actions are a disgrace.
This is JUST ONE MORE REASON why I won’t buy anything with Dan Slott’s name attached to it.
Barrel Jumper
I would be interested to see how some of the people posting on here would react to someone saying something similar to them. It’s easy to pretend we are all level headed professionals, but I’ve been around long enough to know that what people pretend to be online and what they are in reality isn’t always the same thing.
Myself, I think Slott should have refrained, but I won’t sit here and say the poster didn’t have it coming to him.
Glenn Beck is that you?? Thank the lord there are people willing to stand up for a creator’s right to act unprofessionally. They’re the only people preventing us all from being shipped off to the reeducation centers. God Bless America!!
@ Kevin…
Where does the fine line stop?
Telling somebody that they should “get off the internet” because they don’t like to hear all the BS negativity that people can freely dole out (and apparantly, they aren’t allowed to have any type of rebuttal that isn’t deemed “professional”)…
yes, it appears anal at first… but what comes after that… and after that?
Everyone thinks they live in the “land of the free” where they can tell some guy to “whatever” (the posts have been deleted @CBR, so I have no idea what was said), and the response is to tell said guy that he “should get off the computer”????
Why is it that paying/non-paying fans are allowed to rude & ignorant towards the people that create the books, yet it’s terrible if said creator dishes it right back.
Telling him he should “get off the computer” is just the start… what civil rights for comic book creator will be at stake next?
Obviously, it’s not “comparable” to the plight of African-Americans in the US, or the Jews in Germany NOW… but even looking at the history of those events, things began simple enough that made people think it was “ok”…
I have no right to tell YOU what to do… what gives the people on this board the right to tell Dan Slott he should “get off the computer” if he doesn’t like what he reads?
If people reacted in a more mature & polite manner, none of this would have even happend.
But tough guys living in their mom’s basements have big mouths… and apparantly their rights are more protected (and condoned) than the creators of the comics we all love and read.
Again, the people to the people who seem to thin that I’m a bigot, er one person that thinks that they should get in the back of the perverbial bus, needs to understand, if you’re going to tell people to go eff themselves, then you’ve reached a point where you don’t need to be on the damn computer talking to people online. If he was sick, then you need to rest, not get your blood boiling over some insignigifacant flea that pushed that one button.
Had he showed some restriant, then he’d gotten alot more respect in my book. Let the no-names tell him to go eff himself. The rest of CBR is good at that.
Normally I would sympathize with this. (We’ve all been here. Putting our foots in our mouths and such)
But here’s what stops me:
“…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…”
If he’s that sick why in the heck is he getting on the net to argue with people in the first place?
Is he getting paid to appear on the CBR forums? O_O
If you feel good enough to expose yourself to a place where you KNOW your going to get pissed off, than you must not really be feeling THAT bad at all.
The time he uses to insult nameless internet poster number 59883 could be spent refining his Amazing Spidey comics.
ALL posters should abide by a board’s rules.
As simple as that.
Meanwhile, I don’t think Slott should have
used them there words.
Slott should not have done this. He is not speaking just for himself, as he is a professional and probably the most visible member of the team creating ASM. Take the high road.
He should have done what most professionals do. Talk with a friend or colleague. That person, speaking for his/herself, would point out the hard work Slott has done, and posted the angry GFY in support of Slott.
Should Slott have said that? Perhaps not with those particular words, no. Do I blame him? Not at all. He probably should have chosen his words better or just left it alone. But I do understand where he is coming from and I won’t hold this against him at all.
Please excuse my bad spelling in my initial post…. my blood sugars were low…
Decade should read Century…
As someone who’s put his foot in his mouth before when emotion got the better of him, I think Slott’s reaction was better left under his breath than on the forum. This puts a lot of fans off; as a professional writer you have to carry a modicum of maturity and dignity. While we understand that he’s had serious health concerns, he could have responded to this in another, less-volatile way. Telling off one fan means telling off the majority. Dan, next time please think this out. Some people are assholes, I know, but you wind up the bad guy when you react like this.
Well now we know why there is such a long wait between 649 and 650. Slott is too busy telling people to eff themselves. Bet he doesn’t even get a warning.
I can’t beleive this is even an issue…
Dedicating an entire topic filled with internet tweens & basement babies is yet just a gross invitation to ask for another F-Bomb from Slott & Whacker… and it would be rightly justified.
You keep giving these people who think their thoughts & opinions actually matter/count a forum and one day, it will explode on the faces of these creators… and simply telling them “to get off the computer” is NOT an answer, because I beleive we’ve already gone through the “get in the back of the bus” & Auswitch Sagaa throughout the last decade that we don’t need to start new ones… albiet in baby form…
Let the man do his job, be respectful about his job, and all will be fine.
If you disagree with his job, then be polite about it.
‘Nuff said.
Mike
🙂
@21
Please join my new site http://www.captaincheesesteakcantcaulkforcrap.com
😉
I find it shocking and somewhat appalling how many people here are voicing out their *approval* of Slott’s behaviour.
For one, being told you are not “a real fan” is not exactly the worst insult out there. I mean, really, doesn’t being professional kind of rank higher than being a fan, anyway? Isn’t it essentially much *cooler* to be professional in something, rather than a fan? And not only is Slott answering an insult with an insult, he is upping the level of the insult to the boot, too. Unless the original poster made inappropriate comments about Slott’s family members, the one going for the big one here is Slott and he does it *twice*.
Was it nice, or even right, of the original poster to be insulting? Of course not. But did this behaviour somehow justify Slott’s response? Absolutely NOT. Even if Slott wasn’t in the position of power due to being the professional one in the situation, being the one in control of what happens to something important to both parties (in this case Spider-man), he had no right to tell the other poster to go f* himself. One wrong is not made right by another wrong. Nor does one wrong make another wrong right.
I mean, really, isn’t this one of those things most parents try to teach their kids from pretty early age on? Just because someone says a mean thing to you, it does not mean you should go ahead and say mean things back at them. Is it not only considered much more mature, but also simply correct human behaviour, to take the higher road and not be provoked?
Also, while Slott’s response was inappropriate regardless of his position as a professional, his position is not irrelevant to the whole ordeal. He has chosen to place his work, and by certain extension himself, out for people to criticize. That is the basic nature of all creative work, even more so with creative work one makes their living out of. If one cannot handle criticism, be it justified criticism or not, then published creative work is not the field to be. It is not possible to commercially publish something and to expect that *no one* is going to dislike, or even possibly outright hate, your creation.
Another thing where Slott being professional comes into the play is that the poster was potential *customer*. Under no circumstances is it acceptable behaviour from a professional to tell their customer to go F* himself. Even if the customer is being horribly rude and saying most inappropriate things, the professional party has no excuse to react that way.
Yeah, he should definitly be more proffesional, be holding back on his F-bombs while on a public forum…. But, this was at least a an outburst out of passion for the work, not a smug response out of ego.
I don’t read Spidey books nowadays but that ain’t Slotts fault, I’ve liked things he’s written in past and I’m sure I’d like lots about his Spidey (but I’m still on a post-BND boycott)
I hope he’s just not online getting frustrated all the time. He’d be a lot better off ignoring all our comments and critiques, I can only imagine how flustered I’d be if there were entire websites basically devoted to critiquing my caulking abilities.
Honestly, I don’t even like BND. But these internet-warriors are complete d-bags. I’ve seen people, this site included, compare Joe Quesada to the devil or make fun of his weight. That’s just messed up. The person who attacked Slott is one of those anonymous idiots who sit back on their easy-chairs all day with their laptop in front of them, just spewing endless verbal diarrhea, and trying to bait professionals who may come to their forum. Well, occasionally they bite. I would have blew my top a long time ago if I was Slott. Again, I don’t like ‘Big Time’, but I would never doubt this guy’s passion for Spidey or his work-ethic.
I belive in Mr. Slott
he has given me the best Spider-man Mini ever and some very enjoyable spidey-related stories in She-Hulk! and I know he is a great writer. however, i think he takes orders from Mr. Wacker now.
return to your true self Mr. Slott and tell us stories you supposed to tell us before you got a job as Amazing Spider-Man writer. be a “Fan” again
He is a fan allright more than a pro.. For 3 years he has behaved like this, nothing new about his attitude. He ticks on a nearly daily basis. Maybe the first time the F-word appeared, but his intent is always to mock people who doesn’t agree with him. He claims he only go after people when they post something that is factually incorrect. He is not able to see that the ‘facts’ can be interpreted in multiple ways, so he basically goes after everyone who disagrees. I don’t think this unprofessional behaviour is much more than what he delivers every week on CBR. Respect to Crawlspace for banning him for violating the rules. Not so much respect for CBR who let him continue his provoking rule-breaking cruzade against people of opposing opinions. (I’m sure Lejayjay’s post was inflammatory and rude. That is however irrelevant.)
Honestly being a musician myself and if/when the day comes that a album I made was being trashed on a stupid message board I would avoid it like hell cause its not going to be productive for anyone.
Now that being said we all know Dan wants to be close to the fan base because after all he is one himself. When someone takes a super cheap shot like that of course your gonna get super pissed. Anytime someone challenges your main passion you will react. He should have held back and not have wrote anything but that fan was pushing his buttons. We all fall short of the glory am I right?
Dan is well within his right and I will drink to him in a snowstorm with my infrared goggles on. The man is a fan of the character, I believe that, so good on ’em. He was just relieving some tension and keeping the cosmic trigger happy.
lejayjay is a skidmark. That is the pure and simple truth.
“He’s an adult, he should be use to the humanistic feeling of anger and know how to deal with it like a man.”
Getting drunk in the garage and forcing his kid into competitive sports?
@ Donovan
With all due rspect, you weren’t there. It wasn’t angst over OMD or anything that’s happened in Big Time, it was just a d-bag post. I can’t believe i’m sticking up for Slott on CS, no wonder you guys absolved yourselves of me! 🙂
It was nice to comment again though. I stop by the site everyday for the comic strip. Now I’ll respect the site mods and return to not posting. Goodnight.
Having a bad day doesn’t excuse crap. He’s an adult, he should be use to the humanistic feeling of anger and know how to deal with it like a man.
“Farmville’s not going to tend to itself.”
That wins.
Hold up, the post Lejay sent was much longer and much more offensive than what you guys have up. He basically called Dan an asshole for writing ASM post shitcon. It was much worse. Now, i’ve gotten into some pretty big tiffs with Slott, and even bigger tiffs with Wacker, but Dan and Wacker don’t make these posts ever. Dan was just having a bad day and came across some poster who never took a second to listen to any of Dan’s interviews. If he did, he’d know that Dan is a fan and a guy who appreciates the history of ASM.
Here comes the, “Marriage, history, you are crazy”…
But the thing is, Dan’s writing the character in this status quo now. I’m sure he would have gladly wrote ASM when Pete was married. I could be wrong, but i don’t think i am.
@George- I don’t think Iger gives a shit what Dan Slott says on a CBR message board to some douchbag. I could be wrong though.
What boggles my mind:
From STEVE WACKER. LAST WEEK. ON THIS SITE.
(Sorry to see you deleted the one guy’s comment about me getting fired. Seems odd to rewrite history like that.) – Steve Wacker
While CBR gets their clean up crew on loan from the CIA to rewrite history.
Love Slott for doing this, kick some a**!!!!. The internet has given bitter a**holes a forum to spew their garbage. Most comic fans just want to escape and have fun when they read comics. And most people are fine. But it’s the self-intitled few or minority that always seem to have to bi**ch and moan about there particular issues over and over and over and over again. Some even make a game of it and think it’s cute and clever because the internet fuels their little egos to the point they become self-righteous. They will always be right because they will never put their money where their mouth is and write these things themselves (Huge respect for Kevin for doing exactly that). I would love to see this become more frequent with creators and feed these insects their own excrement and see how they like the taste of it. But of course it won’t happen for many reasons, the main one being it’s unproductive. You can’t create for a sustained period of time when your mind is inflamed. So I will echo Spideydudes sentiments and recommend to Slott that he just stay off the computer and do what all writers should do. Try and get better at your craft everyday. There will lie your salvation. Peace.
“Then he needs to get off the damn computer!”
Farmville’s not going to tend to itself.
Then he needs to get off the damn computer!
“Lejayjay’s” quoted post had a bit more context at the end. His/her point was that no real Spiderfan would ever work for Marvel after OMD. It wasn’t an attack on Slott personally so much as an attack on Marvel. Sure, it’s naive, but it’s one of the nicer epithets you’ll see on the internet.
Slott is probably uberstressed at this point and the worst is coming out in him.
Did Disney CEO Bob Iger approve the new “Go F-ck Yourself” PR campaign?
I think Slott has a right to say what he did, but i dont think he should of said it. Just on the basis of proffesionilsm alone, what he said was and is out fo order
I don’t disagree with him telling him off…. I disagree with the tone he used.
Act like a pro. You’re getting paid for it.
If I someday achieved the dream of writing the Spider-man book, and somebody told me that because of that dedication, I wasn’t a “real fan”, I’d tell them off too. I’m with Mr. Slott here, all the way. But man, it’s gotta suck for the other guy to know he’s an enemy of a writer on his favourite series.
I’ll chime in. The overall problem with the internet is there is a level of deception that occurs in the posters. With most message boards, anyone can be anyone. But with Dan Slott, his consistent dealings with anyone who happens to disagree with him have been escalating in tone over the last three years. But for anyone that honestly believes that Slott didn’t have a point doesn’t understand that Slott is a fan at heart. Should he have reacted differently? You better effing believe it. There’s a way to act, and a way to not act. He’s a professional writer. Not some dude. He needs to have the Tom DeFalco way of doing things book loaned to him.
The way to handle it was the totally opposite way.
But I understand the reasoning for why he would react this way. But he needs to get off the damn computer.
And get back to work!
😛