Amazing Spider-Man writer Dan Slott recently told a poster at the Comic Book Resources Spider-Man forum to go F-themselves. A poster by the name of lejayjay had a snarky comment about Slott saying
It is jus a paycheck for Slott anyway. He’s not a real fan.
Slott then replied with this comment.
As a guy who turned down a side job this year for a paycheck that would’ve been over a third of his yearly income– BECAUSE it would’ve meant cutting back on his not-so-lucrative comic book writing career– and get in the way of working on his Spider-Man dream job…
…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…
…this is the first time I think I’ve ever said this to somebody over a comic book message board:
Go fuck yourself.
Seriously.
Go. Fuck. Yourself.
Now I post this not to bring up the Slott/ Crawlspace disagreement again, but it opens a good point of discussion.
Should the pro’s be held to a different standard when it comes to online behavior?
Should they bite their tongues?
Are they risking future sales to an already small audience, when they tell a potential or current customer to go f-themselves?
I’d like your thoughts in the comment section or on this thread on our message board. Remember no personal attacks, keep it civil. Refresh yourselves on the rules before you post.
CBR has since deleted the post however Google was able to take a cache of it before it was deleted. Here’s the link.
As always, I will bow to Two-Bit Specialist’s wishes as I assume he speaks for all of you since you haven’t said otherwise.
SW
Mr. Wacker, please go annoy some other site. In fact, here:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/showthread.php?31243-Go-Slott-Yourself
They are talking about Mr. Slott there too. Why haven’t you engaged them in non-sequitur conversations yet?
We all show questionable judgement at times, whether we are being paid as professionals or not. We are human beings before being “professional”, whatever state of mind is required to attain that standard 24/7. Passion. He’s not a machine and I don’t want one writing my favorite title. When you work in this industry the fans will get absurd and obnoxious. As I already said, some make a career out of it. I imagine if you handle the INSULTS from some of these people well, it’s like having an army of little red ants crawling all over you. In this particular case, a nasty little cockroach was crawling up his leg and he squashed it. From the people I’ve spoken to today, most of them seem to be siding with Dan on this. There is only so much BS a person can take and everyone, I mean everyone (even all the die hard “professionals” out there who stand behind the GREAT WALL of professionalism), can understand this. The trolls who’s sole mission it is to critique and insult to no end, understand this. Thats why they bait, it’s their currency. So perhaps this particular poster got what he wanted, but I can tell you this, many people got satisfaction in Dan standing up for himself and telling this guy where to put it. So well done Dan, more people then not have got your back on this one. And I would be willing to bet that there will be people who pick up the book because of his response. Cheers.
The fan was a doucebag but Dan should be above sinking to his level, end of.
Honestly, this is the internet, I don’t see how people like Dan can take what faceless people he’s never met before so personally, but I suppose that can be chalked up to fatigue and general sickness
In short, I agree with SD, get of the computer, and this is someone who occasional tweets back and forth with Dan, he’s never insulted me in anyway but he did mock a friend of mine for thinking it was cool that he (Dan) was tweeting me back, not exactly professional behaviour one would argue…..
P.S. Sorry Kevin but it needed to be said. I hope i did not offend you or the board.
“Kevin, again you are making up rules for others to live by.”
No, its called how to be professional.
“Fine for your message board, but that power only goes so far.”
Don’t try that, you have no leg to stand on when you resort to baseless accusations. It only shows that you would rather play victim than have a valid argument. Kevin has been gracious to you while you have not to him or this board.
He’s pretty great to fans… even the embittered. never-going-to-listen-anyway ones.
Does that include the ones he’s telling to go eff themselves?
I really don’t have anything to say. I just didn’t want to be left out of a 100+ comment thread. Back to snowplowing the driveway…
Kevin, again you are making up rules for others to live by. Fine for your message board, but that power only goes so far.
And Dan doesn’t do the things you seem to think he does. He’s pretty great to fans… even the embittered. never-going-to-listen-anyway ones. I think you may be listening to too many people on your and other boards. Dan’s much sweeter than anyone here for example (aside from Brad’s kid).
SW
Steve, for someone who said he was leaving Crawlspace for good, you certainly come back to insult people rather frequently.
Even if Dan Slott didn’t tell that guy to fuck off, Wikileaks would have released everyone’s private emails anyway and we would have still found out about it.
Also, I’m choosing to forgive you for calling Bill Hicks an “insult comedian”. That’s just downright sad.
SW
Kevin, you making those rules up about how Dan needs to act, doesn’t make it applicable or relevant.
What if I think your behavior here is unacceptable for a comics professional? Might I have a bit more context than you in that regard given the work i actually do professionally?
SW
@Matisleonhart
Is Dan Slott saying this the only reason you are dropping the book? If he were to appologize would you change your mind?
This reminds me, years ago, when I read the letters column in one of Todd McFarlane’s Spider-Man issues. The letter writer went on a tirade about how much he thought McFarlane was one the worst artists he had ever seen, that he had no grasp of basic human anatomy, that his characters looked distorted and deformed, that he probably only got the job because he knew someone who could get him into the front door at Marvel rather than having any actual talent, and that this letter writer personally knew a half-a-dozen would-be artists who much more qualified and better than McFarlane on his best day, or words to that effect. McFarlane’s response was: “Really? Who are these artists? If they are really are as good as you claim, maybe you can have them mail in their work so I can help get them a job!”
The thing is, I do agree that what that poster said was rather rude and crass (which, in that same thread which was partially deleted, he later apologized for his behavior, saying he was trying to be sarcastic) and it certainly is ridiculous to think that Dan Slott, given the genuine enthusiasm that’s been on full display whenever he talks about Spider-Man, and the fact that it’s clear he’s been wanting to do this gig for a long time, is most definitely a fan. I’ve had heated debates with him several times and that was something I never doubted about him for a second.
However, it’s very clear that he let his emotions get the best of him, lost his cool, and thus did respond in an unprofessional manner. As “Batgirl” posted earlier, two wrongs don’t make a right. I know I have gotten pretty angry with people on forums in the past, as it is very easy to let one’s emotions flare up. Like it or not, a professional writer, freelance or otherwise, is held to a different standard than their audience is. For that reason alone, we as readers, in most cases, genuinely want those writers–those professionals–as they defend their work and the work of others, to show those who have misguided opinions the errors of their ways, to take the high road, to have some genuine class, so that even though we may still disagree, we can, at the end of the day, still hold them in the deepest respect. We don’t expect them to get down in the gutter with us.
@Kevin – Just forget it and let it die. To pull a Mark, I’ll quote a quote:
“I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it!”
Was Bill Hicks a “professional”?
@Matisleonhart: Exactly. Most people (including myself) understand why Slott did what he did. But he has a duty to be professional. If not for Marvel, then for himself!
There is a saying: “Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level, and then beat you with experience.”
Slott has just shown questionable judgment by arguing with a fool, in public.
Just to note…
Brad mentioned this the first time the picture was taken but I’m repeating it here before somebody gets the wrong idea.
Slott is goofing in the picture. It’s a joke and not meant to be anything negative against the CS. I took the picture and we discussed funny ideas and he suggested holding it upside down.
@spideydude #3 I believe Slott is being paid to write spiderman not what he says in a forum heck if u can get paid for that I’ll take that job lol
“Because I’m indifferent whether or not you or a few of your friends know what I think.”
You’re not telling us anything we don’t know Steve.
@Kevin, don’t waste your time, you have shown more class, understanding and respect about the subject in my opinion that Steve did. You’re not going to get an coherent response from Steve.
You’re a good man Kevin.
Come to think of it, the title is not misleading, but it is grammatically incorrect:
“Slott Tells Fan to f-himself” would be more appropriate, since, from what I understand, it was directed to the one dude.
I love this Fred guy!
Do you have any idea how many years it’s taken me to train and control this Dan character?!?!?!
YEARS!!! Mu hu hu huhahahah!!!!
Because I’m indifferent whether or not you or a few of your friends know what I think. It has little bearing on my life or on reality. It’s the parts where some of you clutch your pearls and pretend to be offended– along with the way many of you dictate how people who don’t work for you or with you should behave — that interests me.
Basically though, I can easily live with the jaundiced, made-up view you have of me because I am at a more peaceful place than you are. There’s still time, though, you’ll hopefully get there.
SW
“I guess I’ll have to live with your rash deductions, though I suspect they say more about you than you realize.”
Honestly Steve, your posts here say a lot about you and Dan. Kevin has shown you the up most respect in his replies, while you in my opinion have not.
And people wonder why Dan acts the way he does with the fans.
@ drew I get what you are saying but I still don’t agree your analogy doesn’t really ring true to me I watch football and I watch how players react when their passion for the game is criticized it’s usually along slotts opinion. And as a creative mind I know when my passion is questioned I snap back but if my WORK is criticized then I can deal with and understand, And even learn from it but criticizing ones work vs their character that’s two different matters and as of now we are talking bout the fan insulting his character/pAssion Slott can not gain anything from mindless criticism such as that it was derogatory and highly uncalled for and Slott defended himself like I believe he should have. I totally get it if aren’t of my opinion though but if the roles was reversed do you absolutely know if you wouldn’t have the same reaction. Also let’s be honest hasnt everyone on this earth said far worse for far less I mean I know when I’m driving and I get cut off I say way worse and this was for nothing. I mean the real question is should Dan have said it maybe not but he did and to be honest I understand where he’s coming from is all that I’m saying
You know, in reading all 61 comments, I think we are missing the point here. The point is not that Dan doesn’t have the right to say what he want or to defend himself in which he has the right. The problem here and let me put it in big capitalized letter so everyone can understand is that the way he defended himself was UNPROFESSIONAL! I think this story bring to light a problem in our country that just becuase we have freedom of speech with think we have freedom from consiqunishes of saying something offensive or unprofessional. Let me put it this way to Mr. Wacker and the Gentelmen who was comparing this to civil rights earlier, I have the right to go into a grocery store, go to the nearest kid and tell him to go F himself to his face. Then three thing WILL probally happen. One, the parent espically if they are the father will Knock me the hell out and beat me within a inch of my life. Two, I would be thrown out and banned from the grcery store. And three, be arrest by the police for disorderly conduct. I still had every right to go tell the child to go F himself, but I didn’t have freedom fom the consiqunishes. Dan Slott has every right to tell the fan to go F himself, and I also have the right to see that and decide not to spend my money on a company who Flagship title has an author, wether that aurthor an employie or a freelancer, telling a fan to go F himself becuase I find it unprofessional. That the consiquench of Slott action. I’m a cusotmer first and a fan second. Let me put it another way since I’m the host of Hexcast, the only podcast dedicated to the Tarot Witch of the Black Rose comic book written by Jim Balent. on of the major reason that I continue to read Tarot is because on a book where it creator who is the writer/artist, has been attack many time for the contents of his book. Jim along with his Wife Holly has always acted Professionaly to both the fans who support his book and the people who attack it. And that is one of the reason that I in turn continue to buy both their books and the products along with defend their book so intently. Hopefully I made my point clear hear that no one think that Dan Slott doesn’t have the right to defend himself or tell a fan to go F himself. The point is that he should have done it more professionally and that becuase of this outburst, some fans including myself will be droping ASM. That the Consiquench.
I guess I’ll have to live with your rash deductions, though I suspect they say more about you than you realize.
I’m sure your nice to babies though…even though I have no evidence!
SW
@ mr broome read my post And if u don’t want too this wasn’t said in a work environment it was said in an Internet forum MARVEL nor any other employer has the right to control what an employee does off hours in his home. If Slott said this in the letter page of the book then your point has true validity but he didn’t he said this in an open forum where people tell people to eff of all the time and worse. Slott didnt say this in a work setting therefore he shouldn’t be reprimanded by marvel for his actions your job can’t take action for your behavior if you arent working.
RETYPE:
Kevin, that’s about as pro-rumor mongering a position as I’ve ever heard….so congrats!
SW
Kevin, that’s about as pro-rumor mongering and a position as I’ve ever heard….so congrats!
SW
@ Newboyz – Sorry but I think you are dead wrong. Just because you don’t react poorly to something does not mean you don’t have passion. Perfect example is hockey, if you aren’t playing with passion in the playoffs, if you don’t want it as much or more than your opponent, then you aren’t going to win. But if you run around undisciplined taking stupid penalties, if everytime somebody checks you someway that you don’t like it and you keep retaliating with cheap shots and always putting your team shorthanded, you aren’t going to win either. There is a way to play with passion and restraint and I’d almost argue showing restraint at key moments can even show that you have more passion because sometimes it takes that passion and willingness to do anything win to be able to turn the other cheek when you don’t want to. Really, anyone who has read an interview with Slott knows he has passion for Spiderman. I highly doubt most people would have doubted his passion for the character because he did not respond to some one’s post on a forum.
Kevin, your position of it being my fault whether or not you know something is correct because you’re going to believe what you believe no matter what is certainly interesting.
Sad that you’d choose that as a creative-minded person, but interesting.
Take caren guys. I have to go help chart the next phase of worst Marvel comics ever!! More like House of NO Ideas!!! Am I right?!?!?
SW
If you completely make up my POV to match what you angrily need it to be to maintain the illusion of constant conflict and scheming… then, yes, #75 has it exactly right.
So if I’m reading this correctly, Steve Wacker seems to agree and condone Dan Slott telling fans to go “fuck” themselves.
Ok. Employee or not…how about some level of human decency?
No matter how much someone dislikes the Crawl Space…just imagine if the members were allowed to say, “Fuck You Slott!” or “Fuck You Wacker!” (purely hypothetical) They’d all be banned and this site wouldn’t exist. Why? Because some rules of proper conduct exist…and this thing called common sense prevails.
Seems to me at the least Marvel should suggest to the talent, “Can we please not tell our fanbase to fuck off”.
Barrel Jumper
@ Doc Folsome – Wait till you hear Dan’s reaction when he hears you compared him to Derek Anderson!! 😛
I also want you all to go F-yourselves for getting me so wrapped up in this I missed the picture of Emma Stone farther down the page. You should be ashamed of yourselves. 🙂
May i bring up an example pre to this.
Danny Way when he was righting Ghost Rider (around 2007) told a fan at a con i dont care about any of you, i only do this for the paycheck. DING thats me dropping your book!
Seriously, now i work in customer service and in most proffessions you tell this to a customer in most customer service environments, there’s two things that WILL and SHOULD happen:
1- You get taken into a Meeting and giving a warning
2- You’re fired
If these two things dont happen, then im seriously starting to debate what a workplace the Marvel offices are and whether or not it shows Marvel, Its Editors (Steve W) and its standards.
Despite the fact that I don’t think Slot SHOULD have said that, I even more strongly believe that the “customer is always right” mindset where they can tell you off and say whatever they want without consequence is absolute bull crap. I actually am glad that someone from Marvel would kind of stand up for Slott instead of comdemning him, by doing this and by what Slott did himself, I think it shows (true or not) that they are not “all about the paycheck. If you really want to start a campaign against people who should be held accountable to the same rules as the regular working class then you should start with professional athletes, they literally get away with murder.
Also, I would never stop reading something I love because the writer told off one jerk who frankly kind of deserved it. Hell, I doubt I would stop reading it if he had said it to me personally, though at the same time I would never say anything that would warrant that type of reaction to begin with.
@GregXB: **glug**
Ok to everyone who said this was unprofessional slott was not in a work setting and how come people feel the need to hold celebrities, creators, new reporters to a higher standard in their daily live they are people with foibles and they aren’t always going to be picture perfect. In This instance I applaud slott it is one thing to criticize a mans work what the fan did was insult the man’s DREAM as a singer/song writer I am very subject to the criticism of my work and I am open to and accept it, but when someone tells me that I am not passioniate about my dream ( which in this case translates to Slott is not a fan) that is bullshit and I will defend myself and I may say much worse than what Dan said in fact I’m surprised that’s all he said. People this is not about professionalism Dan said this not in a work environment now if Slott used a letter page in the actual book then it becomes unprofessional but this was said in his down time while bei on forums this is not unprofessional maybe it’s just bad judgement but I defend Slott’s right to say what he said I find it was justified now if you don’t agree with me think of it like this when someone criticizes your work then you work harder but what do you do when someone criticizes your passion for you dream job you will defend yourself you will most likely tell that person off and if you don’t then they were right about you, you don’t have the passion
I believe doing it, he went down to the person´s level. I am not saying he had to accept it and say no word but like other said, he is a pro and he has to face any type of criticism liking him or not. As a matter of fact he earn to do that, I am quite sure he wouldn´t do it for free. I respect him, even not happy or either being a fan of his work but if he want just to hear good things about him, stay on Marvel´s forum or don´t go to any forum at all.
Having read all of this. I understand and agree with Steve Wacker that the freelancers shouldn’t be held to certain terms by the corporation. Wacker is correct about this. Dan Slott has the right to speak his mind.
That being said, I still feel Slott was in the wrong. Just because he can do something doesn’t mean he should do something. Yes, people on the internet can be douches, and they drive me nuts sometimes too. But Slott should have been the bigger person, and been more polite in his response, or better than that, not responded at all.
I am lucky enough to have a friend and mentor who works in comics and television, and he has a large fanbase following his work. Yes, the fans drive him nuts sometimes, and he can get a bit sarcastic when that happens. But he never gets nasty, and he’s never told anyone off like that. Hell, when I got nasty with someone several years back, he saw it, and e-mailed me this long lecture. about how I needed to take a deep breath before posting, be more diplomatic and even more forgiving. How if he he blew up every time a fan said something retarded, he would have NO FANS LEFT.
He’s right, and I’ve always tried to keep that in mind. I don’t always succeed. But I try.
What this guy said to Slott was dumb. Very dumb. But Slott shouldn’t have sunk to his level.
@Stephen Wacker
Bottom line, do you agree with the way Slott handled the situation? As a person who is “smart and has common sense about that kind of thing” is this how you would have handled it? I’d like to think I have common sense about these kind of things too and my “common sense” would tell me his response wrong.
To me, it comes off as unprofessional. Does he have the right to respond this way? absolutely. However, being in the position he’s in, my personal opinion is that he should have handled it more professionally. Also, say what you want about Slott not being a Marvel employee, being a freelancer or whatever (I don’t pretend to know the in’s and out’s of the comic business), but I can tell you as a reader for over 30 years this leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth about Marvel. That should be a concern to Marvel.
……just one fans opinion (who usually doesn’t get involved with these type of debates).
All that said…can i judge this website by the fact that many users say goofy, wrong-headed, mean-spirited stuff that they make up? That answer seems to generally be no.
I assume you’re reffering to the posts you and Dan make on CBR?
And how come you aren’t complaining that CBR removed a post, or is it ok for them but wrong for us?
Wow…this got interesting fast.
Yeah look I can understand Slott’s anger and annoyance and I’m sure in his mind he was thinking the hell with this, this guy is not buying my book anyway so why can’t I tell him off. Catch most of us on the wrong day (myself included) and it is easy to blow a gasket. Still though, I think it would have been better for him to show restraint. It is not a matter of limiting free speech as some are ridiculously trying to paint it, it is a matter of using your head and common sense. What do you gain in the end by telling a potential paying customer off other than some self gratification at the moment? The short term feeling you get there is not going to be beneficial in the long term when you are trying to convince that customer to come back with the next change in direction (whatever or whenever it may be). That’s all Kevin and others are trying to say. Any of us who have worked in a job dealing with the public in any form can tell you a whole list of stories where we have wanted to tell a customer off just like Slott did but we had to use restraint for the sake of the business, our job security, or whatever reason.
To use “themanofbat”‘s own words – If people reacted in a more mature & polite manner, none of this would have even happend. Very true but why shouldn’t that start with Slott? It has to start somewhere and the where should have been Slott for the simple fact that it could affect him financially and long term. Yes it would be nice if everyone on the internet acted more polite to each other but alas that is not reality but as Batgirl said, two wrongs don’t make a right and the person who has the most to lose here was Slott.
I don’t blame Slott for reacting that way or think he is a jerk or something for his reaction but he should have kept a cooler head. That’s all.
For the record, the post is back at CBR. And, even though BOTH of the Spider-Board mods have commented in the thread, they haven’t even addressed the post or given any visible warnings.
I think Slott made a mistake in doing this…but all that tells me is that he’s a human being…I’m not gonna judge him as a writer based off of this anymore than I’m gonna judge Derek Anderson as QB after he blew up on the press…and if anyone thinks they can judge Slott as a person based off of a couple of things he posts at a message board they’re wrong as well…
BD, I have a LOT of respect for this site, but honestly, this isn’t news (despite the fact that its hit 60+ posts)…and unless we’re going to discuss the ‘good’ things writers do, it may not be fair to highlight their screw-ups…
@Stephen Wacker: First of all, the rules aren’t selectively applied here. I myself am Exhibit A — even though I write the site’s official reviews of The Amazing Spider-Man, I have two warnings on the message boards for very minor (and debatable) infractions of the rules. They don’t pick favorites.
Secondly, the mods and admins don’t delete posts that break the rules, as a means of showing people what is and is not offensive. Though I’m not a mod or admin, I edited the post in my last review because it was directly insulting to you — and Brad contacted me and told me NOT to do that in the future, because it was against the site’s policy. So, the so-called “revisionist history” you keep claiming in your posts is, in fact, a complete fabrication of your own based on a single incident having nothing to do with the administrative staff. NOW who’s the one making things up? 😉
Kevin, you do what many of the more defensive people here seem to do and have created some crusade that I’m on against this website. The world is more indifferent to you than you think.
Please don’t hold me to the same grudges and wars you are waging. I find this place VERY entertaining and have said so.
SW