Amazing Spider-Man writer Dan Slott recently told a poster at the Comic Book Resources Spider-Man forum to go F-themselves. A poster by the name of lejayjay had a snarky comment about Slott saying
It is jus a paycheck for Slott anyway. He’s not a real fan.
Slott then replied with this comment.
As a guy who turned down a side job this year for a paycheck that would’ve been over a third of his yearly income– BECAUSE it would’ve meant cutting back on his not-so-lucrative comic book writing career– and get in the way of working on his Spider-Man dream job…
…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…
…this is the first time I think I’ve ever said this to somebody over a comic book message board:
Go fuck yourself.
Seriously.
Go. Fuck. Yourself.
Now I post this not to bring up the Slott/ Crawlspace disagreement again, but it opens a good point of discussion.
Should the pro’s be held to a different standard when it comes to online behavior?
Should they bite their tongues?
Are they risking future sales to an already small audience, when they tell a potential or current customer to go f-themselves?
I’d like your thoughts in the comment section or on this thread on our message board. Remember no personal attacks, keep it civil. Refresh yourselves on the rules before you post.
CBR has since deleted the post however Google was able to take a cache of it before it was deleted. Here’s the link.
It’s Christmas in Manhattan and all through the house…the Lizard and Stegron the Dinosaur Man are trying to rip Spider-Man limb from limb!
Loved that issue.
Stegron… and there was Sauron too right? Or was Stegron Sauron?
CBR has devalued itself in this debacle too because its double standard and propaganda stance is on public show.
I don’t think Steve Wacker is doing his or marvel’s image
any good with his comments.
…Anybody want a peanut?
@herman22
Damage control? Looks like he’s just here to pick on Kevin. And he calls himself a professional?
All I’m gonna say on the matter is this… if the guy said something to Slott to set him off, maybe he had it coming. I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But I’m willing to bet if it was anyone else who used that line, they would have got a warning or a ban.
If it was me, and he said something that sought me off, then I probably would have done the same thing. So I’m not going to say that he shouldn’t have done it. Hell, I get mad at people too. but if one person is expected to be civil and follow rules of etiquette on a board, the same should go for everyone else.
Slott, if he had it coming, then you were in your right. BUT, if I can’t tell someone to go f*** themselves on a message board, then I’m afraid that in the interest of fairness, you shouldn’t be able to, either. And if they let YOU get away with it and delete the evidence, then guess what…?
BTW, hope you’re felling better. I’m trying to get over a nasty cold myself…
I can only wonder if front page new stories could be locked how long ago this would of been locked…..
All i’m going to say is that If I am representing a company by contributing content then I should be held accountable for my interactions with the company’s demographic. As a writer of the story( Claiming that it is your dream job) then you should be held to a higher standard then your fans.
If he wanted to do damage control I don’t think he would be acting the way he was. *shrugs*
“How many people’s “boss’s” would come and do that for ya?”
The ones concerned with damage control.
Wow…..Big props to Wacker coming in and defending his boy. How many people’s “boss’s” would come and do that for ya?
Hmm I think I’m more offended by the fact that people are still bringing professionalism into the argument professional begins and ends in the work place what we are disscusing isn’t a matter of professionalism it’s a matter of ethics and manners was what Dan said ethical…no did he have manners… No but he’s entitled to defend himself I think what that fab said was tantamount to the fuck you that Dan gave him back. Those of you who bring professionalism up in this case are off base I think the behavior of Dan has not interfered with his ability to write asm granted it may be off putting but unprofessional I think not. Thus was said in a forum not in dialogue of the characters he writes nor does it appear in the letter column this is a matter of ethics and maybe Dan fails on being a moral poster but I don’t think this affects his ability to work and if marvel were to take action I think it would be a gross misuse of power. Barack Obama called kanye west a jackass does that mean he isn’t capAble of being president I think not . Pls folks let’s not make this about professionalism because clearly this is a matter of morals, ethics and manners. And while I’m certain the next argument is how can a man who displayed lack of morals write the most moral chAracter in the marvel library my argument is that it hasn’t done anything damaging to spider-man thus far. Some readers may stop reading I doubt this will hurt the sales very much it might have shave off a few hundred sales but nothing dramatic
on a sidenote th headline for this story is a little misleading, and i hope it was written this way on accident and not as a way to get a further rise out of any of the posters as this is alreasy a heated arguement. maybe a correction or a retraction for a misquote is in order.
No Problem:)
Fred I’m stopping you right there. You may want to contact Mets about this outside of CS, because this slipperly slope will get even more slippery.
Also this is Betty and Ned’s wedding.
Met’s, why were you banned again?
Dang we passed through the original Clone Saga.
Thanks for the clarification at what happened on CBR’s end. It all had a very “brush it under the rug and try to pretend it never happened” feel to it; thank God that wasn’t the case, huh?
“shut the *$#& up and give me your money!” indeed!
@Kevin Cushing re: post #38- There is the argument that in this industry, an individual writer is less replaceable than a generic employee. Deciding otherwise demonstrates that the quality of the material isn’t the top priority of the people in charge.
@Gerard Delatour re: post #51- The Crawl Space has different policies than CBR. But it doesn’t mean that I would have reacted differently to a possible overreaction by an ordinary poster at CBR whom I knew to be ill at the time of the comment, than my Co-Mod did with Dan Slott.
And shouldn’t you argue with Kevin Cushing, when he says that professionals should have reasonable limits on what they say online, suggesting that they shouldn’t be treated the same as ordinary posters?
@Gerard Delatour re: post #62- CBR & the Crawl Space have different policies when it comes to the handling of inappropriate comments. What works for you guys may not work as effectively for us, and vice versa.
@Kevin Cushing re: post #84- Did Steve Wacker explicitly say he was cool with what Dan Slott said?
slotts totally right
“Dan is not an employee and isn’t held to the same standards I am.” — Wacker
But surely the two of you both represent Marvel Comics, yes? Or does Dan, as the non-employee who also just happens to be the sole writer for Marvel’s most famous flagship character, not represent the company at all? Because if he’s not he sure does do a lot of interviews promoting Marvel projects.
What’s sad is that for so long now I’ve been correctly pointing out that Marvel’s attitude towards many of their fans is “Hey, go f-ck yourself,” so this wasn’t so shocking to me. Nonetheless Slott proved precisely what I’d been saying about Marvel’s attitude, and did it verbatim.
Yay…. ASM #148… my first issue.
🙂
Then we had the Tarantula…
I hope I can post for #148… that was my first issue of ASM I bought back in 1975…
Spidey battles the Scorpion in this 2 parter…
@137
Two-Bit Specialist, why don’t you apologize to Steve Wacker for telling him to go away, rather than just Kevin or Bertone? Also are you apologizing because you genuinely feel bad about what you said or because you don’t want to get in trouble (ban or warning)?
@139
Tony you get the popcorn, I’ll get the cokes. 😀
Slott’s appeal for sympathy due to his dramatic and unspecified illness is as silly as his four letter wording to a customer. There is some seriously warped adolescent behaviour going on, and most of it is leaking out of the Quesada-verse.
Seems a few new comments popped up while I was writing my earlier post (and making tea and doing other stuff) so I didn’t cover either part of Conway’s first Green Goblin tale. If it matters, I will note that I’m a mod at the Spider-Man forum at CBR, and that I was banned from the Crawl Space an year ago or so. I didn’t delete Slott’s comment or disagree with the decision.
@spideydude re: posts #1&7- It seems that Slott got off the computer after he made the comment.
@spideydude re: post #10- Why bring up Wacker’s comment in a new discussion, without providing a link to the original comment in its full context?
@clonesaga re: post #18- Was Slott actually banned from the Crawl Space? I was under the impression it was slightly more nuanced.
@Batgirl re: post #22- Why can’t someone simultaneously be a fan and a professional? If someone’s a fan, isn’t the suggestion that they’re not a fan akin to a personal insult?
@Keenan re: post #32- It’s common for people to do something else while they should be resting. It doesn’t mean that they’re not sick.
@spideydude re: post #33- What do you mean by “The rest of CBR is good at that”?
I have nothing to add but felt compelled to throw my name in this super long thread. I don’t really like to argue on the internet.
By the way, I am sorry to hear that Dan Slott isn’t or wasn’t feeling well. I really hope he recovers or has recovered by now.
Green Goblin 2!
I think this part isn’t getting as much attention as it should. “…and the guy who slept less than 12 hours over the course of 4 days this week working on a script while he was sick… a guy who finally had to be ORDERED off it by his editor to go see a doctor… and is still in a good deal of pain today…”
To add to the discussion of how pros should conduct themselves online, how seriously should we take comments made by people who were probably physically ill at the time?
@ Andrew – My thoughts exactly. Share some popcorn? 🙂
@136
In the 60’s and 70’s, fans didn’t accuse creators of not being real fans or demonize them on online forums. The internet is a two-way street, buddy. If you want respect and cordial relations with creators, then disagree in a civil manner and criticize the work, but don’t be a flaming d-bag and attack them personally as that guy did to Slott (and Two-Bit Specialist did to Wacker @115 in this very thread).
@Kevin – I said I was sorry! Does that not count for anything? 🙁
I miss the 60’s & 70’s when the Marvel editors cared about the fans. That’s one of the things that helped make Marvel one of the top two comic publishers. I doubt Stan Lee would’ve condoned a writer telling a fan to “F-” himself.
Well we are halfway through the Gerry Conway run, can’t wait for Green Goblin 2 and Ben Reilly’s first very brief appearance!!!
What conversation was Mr. Wacker having? I couldn’t find any of those rules.
This is the funniest thread ever. *eats popcorn*
Wow! What an interesting read today! Quite entertaining on all sides. Kudos to Kevin and Steve for keeping us all entertained! I have no comment on the actual incident, but I do appreciate the fact that it made everyone comment. That being said, can everybody PLEASE stop saying “that being said” or “having said that” or “that said”. Sheesh!
@SteveWacker,
you know the best way to convince people that something isn’t a big deal? NOT MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT. It’s fine over at CBR where there is a bully culture that lets creators play by different rules, but out there in reality, you can’t gloss over dismal sales, a general air of disinterest in the marketplace and outright alienation turning to hostility in the fanbase. You aren’t winning friends here or anywhere by coming the high hat.
Be nice to people on the way up. You’ll be meeting all of them again on the way down.
Spidey fought the Hulk in Montreal…
@107 posting on any forum is a lot like a club and like a club, it has rules. Did Dan violate any of CBR’s? I rarely post over there, so I don’t recall their specifics. However, as someone who has basically had to have been customer service oriented my entire career, I don’t think his comments were appropriate for that forum, a forum discussing a book he works on. Sure, he does have the right to say it, but if I told other people who insulted me about my work what he told them, I would no longer be employed there. I am not stating you need to have him pulled from his book, just that in that particular setting, I can see how others would take umbridge with what went down.
@Bertone (re #126)
Depends on if Mr. Wacker returns for more debate…
@Erock
You are my new best friend! I do that for mileage and other random things. Sometimes on road trips too…
Will this thread make it to the Wolfman run?
To quote Peter in USM “Just for the record, it’s not what you said, but how you said it”
Dan had an absolute right to defend himself in that position, but I feel his words WERE unprofessional.
@ Mr. Wacker- I don’t see how being professional to the people that are buying your product is a made-up rule at all. Yes, Dan is a freelancer, but he still is representing the company. And every comment like that he makes drives a potential customer away from him (for example, I have chosen not to buy the Spider-Man/Human Torch mini that I had heard wonderful things about due to the unprofessionalism of Mr. Slott). Look at Tom DeFalco. When Spider-Girl: The End came out, many more people bought it than normal, due tpo the fact that they respected Mr. DeFalco due to his porfessional attitude. Whenever someone does something UNprofessional, it refects very poorly on them and the company. There are classy ways to word disagreements. And I think part of the issue is you are of the perception that everyone is joking about being offended or upset at these comments like it is a show. I can speak for myself that it is not. In fact I am saddened that you guys, who have the potential to have the respect of all your fanbase (even those that disagree with you), have sunk down to the level of the people who insult you. If you show yourselves to be the better men and respond with class, then you can gain a lot of respect form a lot of people, which would go a LONG way to getting the numbers on Amazing Spider-Man to rise 🙂
Bertone – I do that ASM issue comparison with the mileage on my car . . . I usually have to fill up in the middle of Micheline’s run. Sometimes after a lot of freeway driving I will make it to the Clone Saga.
LOL @23
@Bertone: Well I missed killing Gwen but got the Goblin.
@Steve
I’d put this one in the lose column buddy and live to fight another day. Kevin has been nothing but respectful and has IMO raised some very legitimate points and questions. Also, you never answered my question (all the way back at #65). That’s fine, absolutely your right, but DO NOT be surprised that based on the exchange so far that some customers might get the feeling that you’re OK with what Dan Slott did. If you don’t get why the perceived indifference you’re showing for what Dan did would be concerning to some, then I suggest you check the address of that happy place of yours. Also, any jobs available at Marvel? I’d like to work, or freelance, there with that level of understanding. I’m not saying you’re condoning what he did, but you certainly can’t argue that many will perceive it as such.
You’ve made it clear that you’re indifferent to what some of your customers here (who are the same as the “friends” you refer to earlier) think about you’re response to this incident, but I’ve gotta tell you, this exchange has been an eye opener for me. You’re the Senior Editor on ASM! You’ve got to expect people/customers are going to look to see how you, a represetative of Marvel, repond the this situation. What I get out of this exchange is that that the Sr. Editor on ASM, a major contributor to the only Marvel (or any comic) title I regularly buy, thinks it’s OK for a freelance he hires to tell their customers to F** off. That’s disappointing.
Ahhh, if you only cared what I, a paying customer for over 30 years, thought……
@Bertone
Sorry. I’ll let BD handle this when he finds out.
You know what’s fun? Seeing how the comments correspond to issues of Amazing. This comment is where he fought the Hulk! Who wants to kill Gwen?
Two-Bit, bring the hostility down..
@Mr. Wacker – A wish that has not been granted, I see.